223 Federal Brass - Loose primer pockets ?

[SteveW-II]

223 Federal Brass - Loose primer pockets ? - maybe it's the primers..

I would say that I have reloaded my Federal 223 brass about twice after the initial firing and on the third reloading cycle the primers slip in waaay too easily. Time to fire and forget, I think. Anyone else have a similar experience ?

[edited to change the title]

 

[Ol` Joe]

What are you loading it with?
Brass should last for more then 3 firing with normal pressure loads I tossed some 223 Winchester stuff a few weeks back "just because" that had 17 loadings stuffed in them. I don`t anneal and the neck tension was getting iffy, but still hadn`t split any, and the pockets were still snug on Rem 7.5 primers. This was using a steady load of 25.5gr of Benchmark with 52gr Noslers

 

[ants]

As Joe says, excessive case web stretch (which includes the primer pocket) is related to the overloading. Just as Joe asks, What is your load?

It is always possible that the brass was very soft from the factory, but they still shouldn't stretch that fast in 223 Rem.

Joe listed: 25.5gr of Benchmark with 52gr Noslers

Yes, sir, my favorite load for 3-gun competition in a 16" carbine with 1/9 twist.

 

[243winxb]

If you can seat the primer by hand, no tools, its to loose. On internet, a guy claimed federal brass has less metal in the head area. Here is a photo he posted.

 

[ants]

FYI: There was an excellent comparison on Ammo Oracle among commercial and military 223/5.56 brass. Most military brass (including LC) did NOT have more metal than commercial, nor did it have less case capacity. I am absolutely certain we can find exceptions everywhere, no doubt about that.

 

[SteveW-II]

I use one of 2 loads. Either 24 grains of TAC under a 69 gr SMK or 26 grains of TAC under a 52 gr SMK. Primers are CCI 400s or (just yesterday) Rem 7.5s. If I had some CCI's left over, I would try those. It might just be that the Rem 7.5s are a tab smaller, but I can't tell.

 

[NCsmitty]

It looks like you're flirting with near maximum loads according to the Ramshot data page. If you are getting premature loose primer pockets from high pressure, maybe a 1/2gr charge reduction would be prudent at this stage.



NCsmitty

 

[SteveW-II]

Maybe. I have used these two loads for some time now in other brass. As another poster said, I don't find any difference in case capacity between the brass vendors (as measured by the amount of water I can get in the case). I have used Rem, Win and LC before this batch of Federal without problems. This is, however, the first time I have used Rem primers, as my stock of CCIs ran out. I don't know if the Rem 7.5s are just easier to insert into the case.

 

[Walkalong]

My plinker load in .223 with TAC is 25.3 Grs with a 55 Gr FMJ. That has proven safe with all weights of .223 brass. 25.4 was pushing it with heavier brass. (IMHO)

I have a batch of eight test cases that have been fired 12 times now. I lost one to a loose primer pocket around 9 firings, and the primer pockets on the other seven are close to too loose now.

I have read here from posters saying the Fed brass is softer and the primer pockets will loosen much earlier than other brass, but I have not tested it out.

 

[Maj Dad]

I can tell you that Federal 303 Brit brass is much softer than Norma/Win/Rem/HXP. I got one reload out of some new Fed; case heads were almost totally separated on firing the 2d reload. I am not looking for ways to improve case life; I know the drill. But I get 3-4 reloads with the other with no separations to date. Not a scientific analysis, just a relative implication that the Federal is softer. From that you may infer "worse" or "inferior", but that's up to the individual. I like Federal brass; I just don't use it for the 303s

 

[Canuck-IL]

Some Fed headstamps do have the thin web area ... if I get a large batch of Fed, I just section a couple to be sure what I have. The thin web ones go straight in recycling - my std prep work isn't worth the time for 1 or maybe 2 firings.

Here's a long thread w multiple clues as to which stamps to avoid - it's the internet so, naturally, there are at least 25 opinions among the 20 or so posters!
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6071

/Bryan

 

[dirtman]

The left side (under the primer cup) of you military case looks thinner then the right side... is that the lighting in the photo or what..

 

[NuJudge]

You will have to register to read this thread about Federal .223 brass, but it is worth doing:

http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6071

 

[Idano]

I couldn't help notice that Steve is using CCI400 primers and those primers are only good below 52,000 psi. I found that out with the Remington 6.5 primers I got stuck with. If he hasn't ruptured a primer like Snuffy did then his pressures could not have been excessive.

 

[SteveW-II]

I didn't know that about the CCI primers. I thought that the 400s were good for anything, but the 450s were for magnums. I never thought of the 223 as a magnum. I live and learn. I am using Rem 7.5s now, after having bought the 6.5's in error (another thread). Never had a ruptured primer.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I've found that Federal .308 brass is junk, I might get 3 loads out of it, then in the trash it goes. I won't load Federal rifle brass, period.

 

[Runningman]

I've had problems with Federal brass in rifles with loose primer pockets in more than a few calibers over the years. It always seemed like the Federal rifle brass was a little on the soft side to me.

 

[SteveW-II]

Maybe it's the primers..

Well, maybe it's the primers. I don't have any CCI small rifle left, but I do have some Winchester SRP. I can place a Rem 7.5 on the (wooden) loading bench and press it into the primer pocket just by placing the brass on it and pushing it with my fingers. I cannot do the same with a Win SRP. As I said before, this is my first time with Rem 7.5s .

 

[67rschev]

I think it depends on which flavor of Federal brass . The WW Federal value pack brass is the worst . I discarded most after the first inital firing cause the primers went in far to easy . I have tried Rem 7 1/2s , Federal reg and Match , and CCI 450 and all primers seemed to seat far to easy . Not to mention they come in 015 short of trim to lenth .

 

[ants]

67rschev said: "WW Federal value pack"

I'm not familiar with those.

 

[Clark]

My experience is that while the .223 is SAAMI registered at 55,000 psi, the brass can be fired many times at 75,000 psi without the primer pockets getting loose.

What doe it all mean?
If you are using book loads, those primer pockets should not be getting loose.

 

[67rschev]

I'm not familiar with those.

Poor grammer and slang on my part , sorry . WW meaning Wally World , Walmart , Chinamart what ever you call it in your neck of the woods . Its Federal Value pack stuff 100 rounds for like 36 bucks , won't ever use it again .

 

[Canuck-IL]

What doe it all mean?
If you are using book loads, those primer pockets should not be getting loose.

With good brass, that's true. I've never had Rem or LC go less than 6, some Fed headstamps won't make it to that - section a few cases and you'll see why, in case the pic above isn't clear enough.
/B

 

[agd1953]

I load .223 and have found that Federal brass is thiner and that the primer pockets do get loose a lot sooner than other brass. I can actualy tell federal brass without looking at it when I re size or seat primers as it re sizes with a lot less effort and the primer seating is the same way. I try to stay away from federal anymore, not because I have had a problem with it, but I dont have the confidence in federal brass that I do with other brass.

 

[Idano]

My experience is that while the .223 is SAAMI registered at 55,000 psi, the brass can be fired many times at 75,000 psi without the primer pockets getting loose.

What doe it all mean?
If you are using book loads, those primer pockets should not be getting loose.

My reloads run in the neighborhood of 52,000 psi and I have seen loose primer pockets after 10-15 reloads with LC brass, but I have also encountered loose primer pockets after as few as 4 reloads. I suspect the variation may depend upon how aggressive the primer pocket was swagged. In the past I always bought my brass preprocessed but my last batch I processed my own and only swagged the pockets enough to just get the primer seated without deforming. It will be interesting to see how many reloads I get out of them before the pockets get loose or if it even makes a difference.