.223 Galil, LM5, etc - what to choose

[AndyC]

I've been pondering which semi-auto rifle to buy for general plinking and SHTF-type applications. In Africa I used the FN-FAL, H&K G3, AK47 and the R4/R5 (South African select-fire version of the .223 Galil - the civilian semi-auto version is the LM4/5/6).

Leaving aside the whole 7.62 vs 5.56 debate, I'm thinking of starting with a 5.56 rifle (I can always buy a 7.62 at another time). I'm not very familiar with the AR15-type rifle and I'm a bit worried about its reliability, especially after reading a review of the Thunder Ranch Urban Rifle 1 course - the guys with the H&Ks and AKs had no problems, but the AR-owners seemed to have a really hard time.

I don't really care to shoot sub-MOA groups - reliability is my main concern, so I've tentatively settled on the idea of a South African-made LM5 rifle. Where can I get one (or something similar of equal quality) here in the US, what do they cost - and do you have any comments on the apparent reliability problem of the AR15 (or how to solve it, etc)?

 

[hank327]

I'm afraid that you won't be able to buy an LM5 here in the US. That version of the Galil has never been imported into this country. The closest thing would be a pre-ban Israeli Galil. Those rifles were quite expensive when they were importable back in the 1980's and they are very expensive now. I think that a pre-ban Galil ARM will bring somewhere in the vicinity of $2500 to $3000. I believe that there have been some Galil receivers and parts kits built into rifles in recent years, but I have no real knowledge on what all that entails.

There are some good AKs available through Arsenal and Global Trades. Arsenal builds a Bulgarian version and has them available in 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and 5.56 NATO. I think Global Trades only has their rifles available in 7.62x39. These rifles run in the $500 to $700 range.

In my experience, the main problem with the AR system is the magazines. They are aluminium and delicate. It is easy to bend or ding the lips and then you will have all sorts of problems. You also have to clean the weapon more frequently and with more diligence than you do an AK. If you have good magazines and a clean AR, you shouldn't have much in the way of problems.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I feel you. I've been wanting a FAMAS for a while now.
I'll probably buy an AK, FAL, or some such.

 

[AndyC]

Damn - ok, thanks for the help, Hank. Looks like I'm going to have to do some more thinking about this.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

AndyC - I would say that the review you linked to was biased to some degree. I've seen and done the clearance drill mentioned and have never found it necessary to shatter a collapsible stock to do it correctly. Second, the bit about barrels exploding due to capillary action of water in the barrel is true for any 5.56mm barrel, contrary to what the review writer asserted. The reviewer mentions he is an AK user and I think he let that color his view.

I'm not saying an AR will suit your needs; but you should take a look at it before you make that decision. They are common enough you shouldn't have much trouble getting hands on with one if you decide you want to give them a try - and they are plenty reliable, though less tolerant of bad parts, maintenance and ammo than the other rifles you mentioned.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

I'd agree with Bartholomew Roberts that the writer of that piece was a bit biased, and I'm an AK-loving fellow myself. It would be worth taking a look at some good examples of the AR breeds before writing them off.

If you prefer the style of the galil, I think you might be best off calling somewhere like Tromix or AK-USA and having your ideal platform constructed to your tastes. There are a lot of folks out there that can work evil wonders on the kalashnikov.
Deciding what your budget is will also probably help make the decision a little easier.

 

[hso]

There's a fellow around here that's a fiend for Galils and he builds them up from Chinese AK "Hunter" models when he can find them. Instead of the $1,500 price for a real Galil he spends less than $800 recreating them from kits. As you've already been told the SA Ak isn't available in the U.S.

I've got an R1 Fal and it's a great gun.

Standard AKs do well also and can have the weldup done on the charging handle to make them more user friendly. The mag catch can be made more functional with aftermarket add ons. The stocks can be changed. Of cours you might spend as much on add ons and mods as you might on a Galil or Valmet.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

I've wanted a Galil for a few years, but the fact that they are in the $3000 range puts them out of my lens. Galil's are fine weapons, but the fact is is that they are Kalashnikov variants, and you can still get very nice Kaslhnikov rifles in this country for well under $1000.

I just picked up a Polish Tantal 2 weeks ago and love it. It's chambered in 5.45 (which is my cartridge of choice) and has a great side folding stock (which is actually much better than the Galil folder, as far as I am concerned).

Also, if you are willing to dish out a little extra coin, perhaps you should think about getting an AK74U - the Krinkov. If you live in a state that allows SBR's, you can get a kit, reciever, pay for the tax stamp, and get a gun smith to put it together (unless you are an experianced gun smith with proper tools you should have someone else put together an AK kit - they don't just slip in like AR's or 1911's) and you'll have a very powerful CQC rifle that has a barrel short enough to easily clear rooms (as well as a fantastic skeletal folder) but that is long enough to give good muzzel velocity and accuracy.

 

[AndyC]

Hmmm, yet more food for thought - thank you, fellers. I realised that the writer may not have been a professional reviewer (if that even makes a difference), but was interested to hear what others' experience has shown them WRT semi-auto reliability in general.

Looks like the research is never-ending

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I realised that the writer may not have been a professional reviewer (if that even makes a difference), but was interested to hear what others' experience has shown them WRT semi-auto reliability in general.

I've been averaging about 1.5-2k between stoppages with all of my various ARs. That number is heading south fast though due to a bad batch of XM193PD that I ended up with (bunch of squib loads). If I remove the ammo related issues, MRBS (Mean rounds between stoppage) is about 3.5k now for all my ARs.

Longest time I have personally gone without cleaning is around 3k in a single rifle. I feel comfortable it will go well past that as long as you keep adding lube; but ARs start getting everything they touch all filthy if you let them sit that long.

I can't really give informed commentary on other rifles as I have not used them over a comparable time/round count period.