Nature Boy
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.223 or .222 Remington...which?
- Thread starter IWAC
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HardCase
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I love both cartridges and have shot a lot of 222 in years (decades) past, and many times as many 223 between my Army time in the early 70s and the present. In this day and age, I really think you cannot go wrong with 223 for all sorts of reasons. They are generally chambered with a fast twist for heavier bullets. The 60 grain Nosler PBs and the 55 or 70 grain Hornady GMXs are arguably very potent game bullets for deer and hog sized game. Accuracy? With some care, a good barrel, and load development, I challenge the average shooter wth a decent gun to tell a lot of difference between the two. Ammo availability? No comparison. This is a competition that isn't even close. But have fun, whichever you end up choosing.....or better yet, get one of each and have double the fun!
lightman
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I have rifles in both calibers. Unless you have the desire for a classic cartridge go with the 223. Rifling twist are usually more forgiving and ammo is cheaper and more plentiful in the 223. And brass is easy to come by. If everything is the same the 222 is probably the more accurate of the two, but most shooters can't shoot the difference!
Offfhand
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Mr. Legionnaire brings up a curious fact: that being that there are no older Winchesters. The .222 Rem was introduced in 1950, during the heyday of Winchesters great M-70, at which time the M-70 was offered in a wide range of calibers, including the .22 Hornet and .220 Swift. The new .222 soon caught on with other gunmakers: Savage, then Marlin and Sako plus other European makers, but was ignored by Winchester. Whatever the reasoning of Winchester's marketers might have been at the time remains mysterious but hindsight tells us that they missed out on a sure bet by ignoring the .222. Possibly they saw the .222 as unwanted completion for their .220 Swift, but a curious development soon proved them wrong. That came about because Remington's 722 rifle, in which their .222 was offered, was a pretty sad looking thing. Despite the spectacular accuracy the M-722/.222 combination, many rifle folks couldn't cotton to the 722's plain lines and, even worst, its bent triggerguard. No way was in in a class with Winchester's elegant M-70, yet Remington's accurate .222 Rem. was to hard to resist. Picking up on this sentiment,
a few gunsmiths, notably Griffin & Howe, pleased hard core Winchester lovers by converting M-70 Hornets to .222. This was done by rechambering Hornets to .222 and modifying the bolt and magazine to function with the larger cartridge. The results came to be known as .222 Hornets. Shown here is a 1950's era B-Grade M-722, which has better wood and checkering, but the plain lines and bent bottom metal ae self-evident. Also the barrel caliber stamping of 722's barrel. But also the barrel (mis)stamping of a M-70 converted to .222 Hornet.
Mowgli Terry
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We never established if the OP is a handloader. Say, OP went into his local store and as for hunting round in .222 or 223 where hogs was the game. What should we tell him.
If I recall the post 64' Model 70's could be had in .222. How much did the G&H conversions cost of the pre-64's cost?
If I recall the post 64' Model 70's could be had in .222. How much did the G&H conversions cost of the pre-64's cost?
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Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Thanks; I was unaware of that. Can you tell I'm not really a Winchester guy?
Speedo66
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The only thing I can add is that if there is another panic, which is not impossible leading up to and including the results of the next election, you will probably still be able to find .222 on the shelves while all the .223/5.56 will be long gone.
Depending on whether you reload, that may be a major consideration. Whatever you choose, it's never too early to start stockpiling ammo and/or components. Just call me Chicken Little...... lol
Depending on whether you reload, that may be a major consideration. Whatever you choose, it's never too early to start stockpiling ammo and/or components. Just call me Chicken Little...... lol
Mowgli Terry
Member
There was a hardware salesman who visited local establishments that sold cartridges. He peddled 222 Magnum is vast amounts. A friend bought ten boxes of NOS 222 Magnum in the old green boxes recently. I don't recall seeing any 222 on the shelves here lately. Friend sold all the old 222 Magnum to one citizen at a gun show. The only way to beat the famine is to handload and/or stockpile. That 222 Magnum was good accurate ammo. We still don't know what to tell OP in the way of factory ammo for 223.
someguy2800
Member
For the 1:9 twist rifle that the OP is looking at and wanting to shoot pigs, this is what I would buy. Good bonded bullets. I've handloaded a bunch of both of them and shot them into water jugs.
https://www.luckygunner.com/223-rem-62-gr-federal-fusion-20-rounds
https://www.luckygunner.com/223-rem-64-grain-sp-speer-gold-dot-20-rounds
Mowgli Terry
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Good suggestion. Would this be a mail order proposition?
someguy2800
Member
Most local stores carry the fusion ammo on the shelf. I've shot a small pile of deer with these bullets in 25-06 both in factory ammo and handloaded and I've been very happy with the results. I have seen several people say that they do really well on deer and hogs in 223, and although I don't intend to try that, I figured it would also be a good idea to keep some 223 ammo on hand that is capable of doing so if the need ever should arise. I think they would be good bullets for coyotes to reduce pelt damage but I haven't had a chance to try that yet.
Mowgli Terry
Member
I'm coping a resent at you guys. You have just about talked me into getting the first 223 in this century. That's off set by not having any gun money. The only one on this forum with that problem.
someguy2800
Member
For sure the new bullet technology we have today makes the 223 a pretty versatile animal. My favorite is a 1:8 twist shooting 75-77 grain bullets. I'm still not there yet on deer hunting with it but maybe someday I will try it.
HardCase
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I agree, 1-8 twist and heavier than normal bullets. I've watched some YouTube videos of the Hornady 55 and 70 grain GMXs, a solid copper expanding bullet, being fired into ballistic gel blocks and through pig shoulders, etc., and they expand pretty uniformly to around 50 caliber and retain most or all of their weight. Whey do some squirrely things when they hit heavy bone, but create massive wound channels and big exits. I think they'd be pretty adequate for deer sized game. I realize that this is a controversial subject. About 18 years ago I did load up some 60 grain Nosler PBs in an old-school 223 AR 15, and shot a deer with it. The range was close, so I got a good chest shot. The bullet passed through so was not recovered, but that deer didn't go 40 feet after being hit. I know that anecdotal accounts do not prove much other than it worked that time, but I would not hesitate to do it again, even though I've not hunted deer with a 223 since. That wasn't because of any disrespect for the round, simply because I haven't hunted as much in recent years, and when I did I was playing with other calibers.
old heeler
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