22LR Military Use

[AKGuy]

So something that I read here on THR got me wondering about military handguns and such, and I ended up perusing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individual_weapons_of_the_U.S._Armed_Forces#Handguns

Among the interesting things that I noticed on the page was the fact that 22LR pistols are/were used by various specwar forces.

Does anyone here have any light to shed on the topic of 22LR military use? Do they use 22LR for "quiet secret mission" stuff, or just for training, or both, or what? I'm guessing that for military application they use FMJ.

Anything that anyone has to offer on the topic of 22LR in military use would be interesting, I think...

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I've read of suppressed .22 pistols being used to eliminate sentries and guard dogs.

 

[BHP FAN]

The U.S. Military used first the Hi-Standard,then the Ruger .22 pistol both in silenced versions,in Vietnam.

 

[Roadwild17]

A vet at work said the traning he had to be a door gunner with nahm was to fly over a river and put 10 rounds in the water with a .22.

 

[mp510]

The Israeli Military has (suppressed??) 10/22's that were originally procured for riot control purposes, but proved to be too lethal for that role. Now they are used for putting down dogs during raids.

 

[AKGuy]

...they must use 'em for more than just putting dogs out of commission...? Training seems like a "given," but...

 

[Darth AkSarBen]

A Ruger 10/22 would make a higly desirable military weapon. It is light, reliable, shoots very accurately, and is easy to clean. It can go many many rounds without so much as any cleaning. If in Stainless, it's not affected by humidity and water. .22 are easy to carry thousands. Any battle with a .22 will result in the loss of other weapons that can be confiscated and used as well.

I grew up shooting Hundreds of Thousands of rounds through a single 10/22 rifle I owned. Then sold it. Now I bought a SS version and is just as reliable, and as accurate. That rotary magazine idea works very well, and there are after market high capacity magazines that work almost as well.

 

[gunlocators1]

Just remember your 10/22 receiver is aluminum

 

[k9870]

um are you seriously saying we should bring 10/22s to war? i know someone who had a personal 10/22 but is air force and issued "government issue cartridge, rifle, caliber .22" and it makes remington thunderbolts look like eley's, it's the worst jamomatic ammo ever

 

[Darth AkSarBen]

My Ruger 10/22 will fire so many round without ever jamming I cannot remember the last time it did jam...many thousands of rounds ago. They have a good design on this rifle.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I can see a suppressed .22LR being used by covert units to take out unwanted lights, flattening tires, eliminating guard dogs, etc. Obviously, a .22LR won't suffice as a battle cartridge, but it is quiet and accurate, so it has it's applications.

 

[BHP FAN]

I wouldn't turn my nose up at a 10-22,but for combat I'd rather have a Mini-14,or better yet an M-14.

 

[nicholst55]

A lot of Army installations used to have indoor rimfire ranges where anyone with an ID card could sign out a .22 rifle (Rem 40X) or pistol (S&W M41) and draw 50 rounds of ammo per day. I used to routinely draw 10-15,000 rds of Remington .22 every few months for the range at Ft. Hood, TX. We also drew Winchester white box .22 ammo.

About that time the military decided that it would be so much easier to train troops with a .22 adapter in their M16 on an indoor range, so I suspect a lot of .22 ammo was expended doing that. Now they use video games - electronic simulators, and many (most? all?) of the indoor ranges have gone away.

In another previous life, I used to store weapons for SEAL teams that were operating in Kuwait between the wars. Each platoon brought enough weapons to arm an Infantry company, but I never saw any .22s - rifles or pistols.

 

[BHP FAN]

Ducky's right for silenced applications,it's tough to beat a Ruger .22...rifle or pistol.

 

[HorseSoldier]

...they must use 'em for more than just putting dogs out of commission...? Training seems like a "given," but...

Suppressed .22 LR weapons were used mostly for getting to the jump off point for the real fight -- taking out sentries and dogs, possibly shooting out lights, that sort of thing. They're not much liked by anyone for real gunfighting.

I think I real somewhere that the Russians developed an urban sniper rifle in .22LR after facing Chechens using civilian .22s with improvised suppressors in Grozny -- but I think that's like the Israeli deal, just a suppressed long gun for the same thing other people used suppressed .22 handguns for.

 

[tasco 74]

i really wouldn't be too worried about using my 1022 to take sniper shots at an enemy... i know the thing is going to put all shots into one hole at 30-50 yards.... my 1022 had one problem with ftf and i i got it to volquartsen's customs and scott and the techs put in an exact edge extractor... end of problems!

LIFE IS SHORT.....

 

[Kind of Blued]

I ran across this photo on here the other day.

 

[xstuntman]

Yes the Chechen snipers used .22 rifles silenced with a plastic bottle on the end. Used in an urban setting the Russians discovered they were extremely deadly over a 10 year period. The Russians developed their own .22 rifle and I think it was designated the sv99. Pretty effective for what most consider a kids squirrel gun. Mike

 

[mp510]

Kindofblued- good find! that's the israelis I was referring to in my earlier post.

The Israeli's also used a collapsing stock ar-7 varient as a survival rifle for their airforce. While not exactly military, there was an article discussing air marshals' gear and tactics in one of the gun magazines shortly after 9/11. It mentioned that Israeli air marshals carry tip-up Beretta .22's, chamber empty/mag hot. According to the the article, they are trained to shoot for the head.

 

[Deanimator]

The last time I qualified on active duty ('83), I used an M16A1 with an Atchisson .22lr conversion unit. We were permanent party in a Basic Training company at Ft. Knox. We qualified on the MTU range. I believe that there were at least two different kinds of conversion units being used, Atchisson, and something else. It was the only time in the military I qualified Expert with the M16, because the poorly maintained popup target system was taken out of the loop. With the exception of an ROTC orientation trip to Ft. Leonard Wood, I'd NEVER shot on a popup range that replaced the targets when they were shot all to hell. On the close-in targets, we were taught in ROTC to shoot IN FRONT OF them so that instead of your bullet passing through the huge hole in the middle of the target, gravel would fly up and trip the target mechanism.

 

[mp510]

I believe that there were at least two different kinds of conversion units being used, Atchisson, and something else.

The other conversion kit you are referring to was probably the m261.

 

[SDC]

The US has also issued .22 survival guns as part of the bail-out kit for pilots, complete with FMJ ammo so that there wouldn't be any claims of non-compliance with the Hague Convention if those pilots were captured. The Russian SV-99 is a neat little SVD-styled rifle with a detachable suppressor made specifically for urban sniping; seen here with the designer, Susloparov:

 

[navajo]

.22

HS and Ruger were usually called hush puppies.
I know a collector who owns an '03 Springfield which was manufactured in .22lr. So it goes back a way.

 

[lanternlad1]

The Israelis have used 10/22 as sniper rifles before...

http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

And you can get a tricked out 10/22 from Mag Research all ready to go.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=MLR22H

 

[Khornet]

See Jeff Cooper

in 'To Ride, Shoot Straight, And Speak The Truth'. He discusses the use of the .22 rimfire in riot control. A couple of snipers with suppressed rifles could pick off the leaders/instigators and make them feel really sick in no time with no fuss and no noise, demotivating the mob.