.22LR stopping power?

[Blofeld]

So what has more stopping power, .17 HMR or a dime dropped off the Empire State Building?

 

[VHinch]

What has really been added to this thread that wasn't said when it was started 5 YEARS AGO? If you must talk about a topic that has been beaten absolutely to death, at least have something new to say, and start a new thread rather than resurrecting one that is long dead and buried.

 

[No Quarter]

Vhinch,

Look at any firearm forum. Every topic other than the discussion of new firearms or calibers has already been talked about before at some point.

If you're wanting completely new topics, here are a few new ones you could try:

"Rolling pin or .38 special for velociraptors - which would you choose?"

"Pencil shavings - how do they stack up against blackpowder for traditional cowboy loads?"

"My transvestite boyfriend wants to buy a polaris missile, should I try to talk him out of it?"

"Anyone else carry a potato cannon as a BUG?"

 

[VHinch]

Agreed. There is really very little we can discuss that hasn't been hashed out repeatedly. However, that was not the point I was making. Read my post -

If you must talk about a topic that has been beaten absolutely to death, at least have something new to say, and start a new thread rather than resurrecting one that is long dead and buried.

I understand that the same topics are going to be repeated. However, there is absolutely no reason to dredge up a 5 year old thread rather than starting a new one.

 

[misterselmo]

no title

These are my thoughts, they are extensive and they are irrational. If you choose to read them, you do so at your own risk, realizing that I may be wrong or that you may not agree with me. I use over-exageration to illustrate simple points and nothing can be taken literally that I have written here. That said, enjoy!

"I have no professional training". Famous last words aside, I don't see the other side of this debate as in close-quarters use of a firearm. If a person is within my arms reach, I am going to revert to tackling, grappling, pushing into walls. In other words, in cqc I will revert to cqc methods. I will not stop, reach for my pistol, pull it out of its deep concealment and attempt to take aim WHILE women and children are on all sides of me as some in this thread have suggested.

Going back to the basic principles of self-defense, your primary goal is never allowing someone the opportunity to attack you. Don't walk down a street at night alone, don't sleep with your doors unlocked, don't walk in to a bar and start mouthing off, etc. If you take all defensive measures necessary you'll likely never need to attack anyone and that is, in essence, the nature of a firearm... and OFFENSIVE weapon.

If you can accept my premise, which is that a gun is for killing. I don't see how a .22 is incapable of being used as an OFFENSE. I have carried a knife now for over a year, and I believe that it is and adequate OFFENSIVE WEAPON (as if there were any other type of weapon) but I take issue with it and its ability to be turned around on my person in a cqc situation. A .22 has at least the same devastation capabilities as a knife blade (understatement) with the added ability of being able to be used from up to 20+ feet away, and god willing, to be able to strike multiple times.

In other words, there is only one situation in which I would use a firearm for self-defense, or more appropriately on the offensive, and that is if a person 1) has a bat, crowbar or machete or something else that I am unable to defend against with conventional hand-to-hand methods AND 2) fleeing is not an option.

No, a .22 can't STOP a person dead in their tracks. The same can be said for a .38 but S&W j-frames continue to increase in popularity by the day. The same is true for 9mm with standard ammunition but people carry those every day and sleep soundly at night. Sure you can carry a .45 or a .50 "hand-cannon". Hell, if you can fit one of those on you, you're not in a gun-sensitive environment so why not just get a SBS and pack it with slugs. If you're going that far, you're probably wearing a trench coat, so you might as well get a fully-auto AK-47 with a folding stock... if you can carry whatever you want then you're not living in the city... so just get 30-06 and "just wait".

As your rounds get bigger your over-penetration likelihood increases. At a certain point, it is guaranteed. Beyond that, you can start lining people up if you wish. A comprehensive answer is simple: if a .22 is all you can carry because anything bigger will leave a big, fat "I'M ARMED" stamp on you then you don't need to hear any more about how it is simply not adequate, or how it is simply going to work... yes, we get it, purists, unless you're firing a mini gun from an apache attack helicopter into a group of enemies you're not doing enough damage.

To close my thoughts, I have to say that I have a fundamental disagreement with the term "stopping power". A 10-pound sledge hammer has "stopping power". A navy battleship's cannons have "stopping power". A train has "stopping" and indeed "going the other way" power.

My version of the question is simply this, "can a .22 severely injure a person and, indeed, kill a person?" The answer? Yes, and so can a bic pen. But I can't throw ten bic pens at hundreds of feet per second, can I?

 

[russcoh]

If someone comes at you with a knife, and you shoot them with a 22LR pistol, you'll be dead from knife wounds before they die from bullet wounds... unless your shot placement is insanely good at 5' in an emergency draw.

 

[mljdeckard]

What the OP asked, (FIVE YEARS AGO,) was whether or not the .22 is better than say, a .25 acp?

If I was at the moment of truth was upon me, and I was pointing a .22 at a bad guy, probably the last thing I would be think would be; "It could be worse. I could be shooting a .25 out of a 2 inch barrel."

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

A .22 in the brain/CNS has infinitely more stopping power than a .50AE to anywhere else.

Shot placement.

I would go with the heaviest non-hollowpoint round I could find and take brain shots only.

But as mentioned, since shot placement is hard to do precisely in an adrenaline situation, it's not a good choice; also as mentioned, the unreliability of rimfire ammo.

 

[mljdeckard]

If you can actually GET it into the brain or CNS. That's the problem with a .22. Even if the shot is well-placed, .22s have a much higher likelihood of doing what they want to, stopping at the cranium, following the bone, going around with the skin, shattering on impact, etc. With bullets, there is never a guarantee of anything, but with very small ones, the odds are much worse.

When I was 16, me and some friends were out in the desert, shooting our .22s at everything that moved, and a few things that didn't. We're not sure who did it, (except that a couple of us, including myself, were reloading at the time, so it wasn't us,) but one of my friends looked down and had a hole in his belly, right below the ribs. He had an exit wound on his back, about two ribs up. We said a very naughty word, and ran him to the hospital. He walked out 20 minutes later, with three stitches and a band-aid, because the bullet entered at an angle, skirted the outside of his ribs under the skin, and exited in the rear. No damage at all. But some BAD-ASS scars to show off.

 

[jackslayer]

I'm tired of people speaking about how weak a .22 is. Someone points one at me and I will gladly crap my pants. I believe most of us with frontal lobes would be very uncomfortable with one pointed at us and yet we talk about them as though they were squirt guns.

 

[mljdeckard]

It's averages and likelihood percentages. The .22 lr isn't at the very bottom of the list, but it's close. In an arena where ALL pistol cartridges are inadequate for personal defense There are VERY few worse options than this one.

If someone was pointing it at me? Ok, I would be in battle mode if I was unarmed and they had a brick too. Look at it from the other direction, if YOU were the one pointing it at someone. IF IT WAS ME, I would be thinking; "How could I possibly have been stupid enough to get myself in this situation and all I have is a .22?"

 

[pps]

I had a raccoon that I hit with a 22lr lay on the levee dead...or so I thought. As I bent over to throw him in the ditch, the little bastard bit me and ran off into the field never to be seen again. After going through the rabies vaccinations as a result of the 22lr failing to stop a raccoon after a solid hit to the chest I'm NOT trusting it to stop a BG to my satisfaction.

 

[mljdeckard]

That's because raccoons are devil-spawned thugs.

 

[pps]

"That's because raccoons are devil-spawned thugs."

No, it's because the 22lr suffers from projectile dysfunction (apologies to brassfetcher.com)

 

[Krazy]

I am here to resuscitate this thread!

22LR can be a perfect home defense weapon if your a good marksmen such as i. If i have tracer rounds i dont even need the sights to aim.

 

[spanky1968]

I killed a 6 pt buck with a 22lr once. Hit him in the neck and he just crumpled over. Granted he wasn't running, but he ended up at the butcher just the same.

 

[AStone]

Welcome to the madhouse, Spanky.

From what distance was that shot?

And how big the deer?

 

[gun guy]

nothing has been kicked around more, especially by dilettantes than stopping power. often, game animals go some distance with a mortal wound from a rifle, in a handgun its iffy at best, in a small caliber handgun, other than a hit at the C1 vertabre its not going to happen, there is also a lethality index that is a better factor when dealing with a handgun. if you are using any handgun, shot placement and good cover are more important than being concerned with the math of stopping power, when the lead starts flying. the 22lr has probably killed more creatures than any other round.

 

[gun guy]

the 32 acp has been used in europe, by both military, and police, for about a century. a 60-70gr bullet at 850-900fps is typical of a 32. recent chronograph tests show the 22lr 40-45 gr bullet in about the same velocitys. the 22 magnum from a ruger single 6 clocked in the 1,450-1,600 fps range, so it can be said that the 22lr is similar in performance to some military and police weapons, and the 22 magnum exceeds both rounds hands down. food for thought.

 

[valorius]

.22LR stopping power?
First off, I understand that the .22LR is nothing compared to 9mm or .45 ACP, placement is key, and that it's better than nothing.

So, how well does a premium .22LR Hollow point fired from a handgun perform on its own? Is it still "completely inadequate" like some say the .25 ACP is?

I'd rather have a .25, at least it's a centerfire.

A .32 Kel Tec P32 would be better, and a .380 would be even better still, there are so many light little guns in that caliber now, why even mess with a .22?

 

[DasFriek]

Modern .25 acp fmj is far ahead better than any .22lr round imo.
If i did use a .22lr it would be a round nose for penetration.
And unless your a good shot you will only make the BG mad if you shoot him with a .22

Before you bash the .25acp anyone i suggest you go shoot some side by side with .22lr.
Then try and get .22lr to feed reliably in a small gun.

I dont ever want to get shot, But if someone is holding a .22lr on me im pretty sure i would go offensive on him and take my chances of being shot and either over power him or draw my ccw myself.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Reply to the zombie thread...

EEEk! It's a zombie thread and all I have is a .22!

Okay, here's my 2 cents.

I was hit by a stray 22 round at just a few feet, very close. It was a hollow tip. It hit my bone, fragmenting (and breaking the bone in the process) everywhere…into the bone and soft tissue surrounding it. The round’s fragments didn’t go very far. My doctor informed me that he felt if it hadn’t been a hollow tip, ti may have went through the bone and penetrated to a vital organ. I feel the same, and I also feel that a hard nose round may have glanced off and bounced around in there until it found a more lethal target.

All in all, there’s too many variables to guess what will happen. Even 45’s, 40’s and 9’s have bounced off of human skulls. There are too many variables to know what will happen for sure.

With that said, I’d prefer to trust my life with a larger, better penetrating caliber. Anything like a 38 special, 9mm or larger is sufficient in my eyes.

If all I had were a 22lr, it wouldn’t be loaded with hp’s unless I were shooting squirrels or other small game. For 2 legged predators, if the 22 were all I had…I’d want a really long barrel (read: rifle) and a hole bunch of rounds on target.

 

[Big Bill]

.22LR stopping power?

It works very well on a chipmunk or groundsquirrel. Not so well on a man.

 

[rtpzwms]

OK Krazy you resuscitated this lets see if I can hijack it.

How much has Hollywood influenced our vision of what we need for a good home defense weapon? example: Dirty Harry
Is our need for a bigger weapon justified or is it ego (mine is bigger than yours)?

 

[Manco]

I am here to resuscitate this thread!

The thread may be a zombie, but the subject is alive and well.

22LR can be a perfect home defense weapon if your a good marksmen such as i. If i have tracer rounds i dont even need the sights to aim.

On that note, some people can shoot .22 LR faster and more accurately than any other caliber...perhaps that goes for most people even if they can't admit it....

Modern .25 acp fmj is far ahead better than any .22lr round imo.

Modern high-velocity .22 LR loads may surprise you. The performance of these two calibers in ballistic gelatin is very similar when using non-expanding rounds. The only advantage .25 ACP has is that it's a centerfire cartridge, which should make it inherently more reliable in ignition, but there are quality .22 LR loads that seem just as reliable in my experience, as long as they're used in a revolver, anyway.

If i did use a .22lr it would be a round nose for penetration.

Out of a handgun, hollow-points generally will not expand, and they seem to penetrate just fine, too.

And unless your a good shot you will only make the BG mad if you shoot him with a .22

The stopping power of ordinary handgun calibers is a myth--the same applies to .45 ACP, too, let alone .25 ACP.

Before you bash the .25acp anyone i suggest you go shoot some side by side with .22lr.
Then try and get .22lr to feed reliably in a small gun.

Frankly, I don't trust rimfire autoloaders, either, so you have a point there. That said, revolvers have been very reliable for me when used with quality ammunition that ignites more reliably (and also penetrates much more deeply) than typical bulk-pack ammo.

A .32 Kel Tec P32 would be better, and a .380 would be even better still, there are so many light little guns in that caliber now, why even mess with a .22?

Some people are better with revolvers and/or trust them more, and with .22 LR they can get plenty of practice for cheap, as well as 8-10 rounds of effective penetration for self-defense if they know what to use.

It works very well on a chipmunk or groundsquirrel. Not so well on a man.

Anything that can penetrate 13-16 inches will work just about as well on a man as anything else that does the same. Larger handgun calibers are without a doubt more effective, but it's only by degrees and is limited by how well a person can shoot them.

Sure, I'd feel more confident with my .40 S&W pistol if somebody were to break into my home--now that I've become fairly proficient with it after nearly a year of training--but if all I had were a .22 LR revolver, I'd stand my ground with it.