25 ways a revolver beats a semi auto

[444]

Malfunction Drills

Type 1 malfunction: Failure to fire.
Auto: Tap, rack, roll
Revolver: Press the trigger again

Type 2 malfunction: Failure to eject
Auto: Tap, Rack, Roll
Revolver: N/A, doesn't eject so it can't have a type 2 malfunction

Type 3 Malfunction: Double Feed (feedway stoppage)
Auto: Look, Lock, Strip, Rack/Rack/Rack, insert fresh mag, Rack
Revolver: N/A, it has no feedway to stop.

 

[Stainz]

The .45ACP is a fine protection round - even in 'just' 230gr FMJ (aka 'ball') ammo. For reliability, that is all I ever fed my G21 or AMT DA Backups - and all new ammo, too. I still had problems... very few with the G21, of course.

S&W has made a proper launch platform for that round since the federal government approached them for our friends fighting the Hun in 1917... and it will shoot anything - HP's, SWC's, clad or lead, without or with (.45 Auto Rim) a rim - accurately and reliably. Heck, loading rounds into those moonclips isn't so bad... loading the revolver is very fast (Watch Jerry Miculek...). Little recoil - anyone can shoot a 25/625 - and, it is a big bore revolver... and, it is not made of plastic!

Stainz

 

[Majic]

Type 2 malfunction: Failure to eject
Revolver: N/A, doesn't eject so it can't have a type 2 malfunction

Shhhhhhh, they may have us on that one. Hang ups on ejecting cases can be a pain.

 

[BluesBear]

Getting a round caught under the star on a revolver is a "shooter induced malfunction" and is 100% avoidable.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Getting a round caught under the star on a revolver is a "shooter induced malfunction" and is 100% avoidable.

Yeah. People say this happens "all the time" with .45 Colt and its small rim. It's never happened to me, and I'm hardly an expert pistolero. You just point the muzzle up and firmly hit the ejection rod. Gravity does the rest.

 

[MrAcheson]

S&W has made a proper launch platform for that round since the federal government approached them for our friends fighting the Hun in 1917.

The Colt 1917s are nice too. I was shooting one of those yesterday.

 

[lee n. field]

I hear mutant spiders require a mozambique drill (two to the thorax, one to the brain) to put down

Abdomen and cephalothorax. I'd shoot for the base of the legs, myself, try to get the ventral ganglia.

I remember that article in _Combat Handguns_. Most of the points were debatable. This is the kind of article that comes out every 3 - 5 years in any given gun rag. "Revolver vs. Auto Shootout!"

 

[Majic]

Getting a round caught under the star on a revolver is a "shooter induced malfunction" and is 100% avoidable.

There is also the rough chambers that hang cases during extractions. It's no fun pounding a stuck case out of a chamber.

 

[Nightcrawler]

There is also the rough chambers that hang cases during extractions. It's no fun pounding a stuck case out of a chamber.

A rough chamber that hangs cases is a quality-control issue, in my opinion. A rough chamber wouldn't do very well on an automatic, either. Unfortunately, guns do leave the factory like this from time to time.

 

[Majic]

That's my point, it's no advantage of the revolver over the pistol.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Did someone say that a rough chamber is a revolver advantage? I don't see how it's applicable, seeing as how it's a quality control issue on both types.

I like the revolver's lack of ejection for a personal practical reason: it makes it easier to clean up brass at the range. Brass can be hard to find in the grass...

 

[hillbilly]

Revolvers can be fired more quickly that semi-autos.

Revolvers don't have a "cyclic rate of fire" as there is not set of springs and slides for reoil or gas pressure to overcome.

All world-record holding handgun speed shooters use revolvers for this reason.

The only limiting factor with revolver speed is how fast you can move your finger.

hillbilly

 

[MrAcheson]

The only limiting factor with revolver speed is how fast you can move your finger.

I'm willing to bet there is a maximum speed set by how quickly the hand, etc can move and keep the revolver in time. Its just durn fast.

Dunno about the revolvers are faster than autos thing. I just think autos don't get used much because they're autos. Whats the point of seeing how fast they can shoot? Its not like any of the famous old timers used them. The cycle speed of an auto is plenty fast though, something like 1/30th of second or so?

 

[hillbilly]

Here are some links on speed shooting revolvers.

http://www.ncsass.com/RedCent/how_fast_is_fast.htm

http://www.sportshooter.com/features/endoftrail/bob_munden.htm


Bob Munden is on videotape shooting a single action revolver three times in something like .19 seconds.

When really good speed shooters fire revolvers, you cannot differentiate between individual shots.

Semi-automatics "sound" faster because they are slow enough for you to hear the individual shots.

So it sounds like pow-pow-pow-pow instead of POW!

hillbilly

 

[Sean Smith]

Those world-record speed shoots with DA revolvers are done with custom guns with super-light trigger pulls. Somebody shooting super-fast with a $3,000 custom revolver with a 5 lb DA trigger pull doesn't really tell you anything about how fast you can shoot an off-the-shelf S&W with a 15 lb DA trigger pull.

Even Bob Munden has to use highly modified guns for his SA speed demonstrations.

The guns he uses to demonstrate Fast Draw by thumbing and fanning are his full house Premier Race Guns (sm.) You cannot Fast-Draw your single action without a major conversion.

You might as well say that folks should drive Chevy Luminas because they go fast in NASCAR.

 

[Majic]

Let a sear fail while shooting a semi-auto to see it's potential speed in shooting. If someone can manipulate their finger that fast.........

 

[MrAcheson]

Exactly. Autos can really become full-autos often unintentionally. Ever seen the video of the full auto glock? 17 rounds in one loud burp. Most of the brass was in the air at the same time. The history channel taped someone with a luger to try to catch the toggle link working. They got one frame that showed a blurry something. Thats 1/30 of second.

 

[pwrtool45]

Actually, IIRC, Mickulek uses a pretty stout DA trigger. He definitely uses a heavier than normal triger return spring, which has a direct impact on the DA pull. He complains about outrunning the trigger on lighter weight DA pulls.

 

[tiberius]

Despite what Bob Munden can do, I can shoot an auto faster than I can shoot a revolver.... how about you?

Revolvers are more fun though.

 

[BluesBear]

Joe Bowman used Ruger Blackhawk revolvers with stock springs for his trick shooting. He could fire three rounds so fast you only heard one POP.
(wax bullets over primers)

 

[DonGlock26]

I saved the article because it was one of the better gun magazine articles, that I've read. It was in the 3-03 issue of Combat Handguns. Ralph Mroz wrote a list of 25 reasons the snubbie is a superior sidearm. His source is Michael DeBethencourt(former Sigarms instr. who uses a Colt Cobra & S&W M12). I'll paraphrase the reasons for you folks.

1.world's safest live round indicator- just look
2.minimum maintainance
3.superior reliability
4.fast into action- not flat on table
5.ya seen one, ya seen them all- all the same
6.few shots needed to function test
7.feeds all ammo in correct caliber
8.misfires reflexively corrected- pull trigger again
9.always availible to second user- point n shoot
10.easy for beginners
11.loading is easy
12.easy to unload, make safe
13.easy to shoot- no da/sa,safeties,no limp wrist,no hair trigger
14.less expensive
15.greater tactical versatility-contact shot with no jams
16.looks nicer- jury friendly
17.grips are adjustible with aftermarket grips
18.pocket fire
19. four season carry
20. cheap pratice-.22lr understudy
21.points well
22.can't fatally foul grip- even poor grip can shoot gun
23.less likely to AD- DA trigger
24.stopping power in small package
25.safer after incident no decock/safeties

I use a M649(125+P Golddots) for my pocket snubbie. Someday I would like to pick up a M642.

Don

 

[Ankeny]

Revolvers can be fired more quickly that semi-autos.

That's a true statement, but there are only a few folks on the planet that can put it into practice.

FWIW, a monster split for a Master class IPSC revolver shooter will run .18-.20 seconds with many years of practice. My better revolver splits run around .18 to .19. Jerry M. gets his splits down to .13. Ed McGivern reportedly recorded splits in the range of .10 but the timing devices of that era were questionable at best.

OTOH, a lot of weekend IPSC shooters with a semi-auto have splits in the .18 range. I routinely shoot .12 splits in club matches on hoser targets and I have shot .9 splits. In any event, splits aren't what win pistol matches (within reason) and ultra fast splits aren't worth much other than having a lot of "wow" factor.

I love revolvers and I have shot them for many years. Still, a semi auto is in general a whole lot easier to shoot fast and accurately.

 

[355sigfan]

SNIP
I'm sure Pat will be along directly.
END

Yes and if you have a problem with me take it up with me rather than taking childish cheap shots. Or try sticking to the discussion. I am sick and tired of your petty attacks in nearly every thread. Grow up. Now for the thread.

SNIP
Can carry loose ammo for reloads.
END

This is a poor way to carry spare ammo but it works with both the revolver and the auto. It’s a bit faster with the revolver to reload however both are slow to load this way.

SNIP
No safety to break or switch off.
END

This can be a good and a bad thing. Good if you don’t train much and need your gun in a hurry. Bad if you have your gun taken from you.

SNIP
Nearly zero learning curve. Can pass a revolver to a newbie in a SHTF scenario without having to give instruction. Better chance for others to continue fight with my gun if I get hit.
END

Yes and no. They are easy to load and unload. They are more difficult to fire in double action and speed loading and tac loading is much more difficult.

SNIP
No slide to hit support hand, especially for weak newbie.
END

This is a shooter induced problem as is having brass caught under the extractor star of a revolver.

SNIP
I've never heard that revolvers, as a group, have worse triggers than bottomfeeders (thanks for that term C.R.Sam!). Care to back that statement up?
END

As was said its easier to shoot a sa auto with a 3.5 to 5 pound pull than it is a revolver with a 10 to 14 pound da pull.

SNIP
Getting a round caught under the star on a revolver is a "shooter induced malfunction" and is 100% avoidable.
END
It is but it happens. Most auto malfunctions are shooter induced. Such as failing to chamber a round or seat a mag or limp wristing.
SNIP
Revolvers can be fired more quickly that semi-autos.
END

Yes and no. By champions yes for the first 6 to 8 rounds. Much slower on the 7th and 9th round. By common folk the semi auto is faster.

SNIP
1.world's safest live round indicator-
END
Press checks are simple too.

SNIP
2.minimum maintainance
END
True I will give you that. But they are harder to clean and they don’t handle abuse as well.

SNIP
3.superior reliability
END

That depends as a whole yes. If only quality autos and quality revolvers are compared its an equal playing field.

SNIP
4.fast into action- not flat on table
END

What? I keep my guns in a holster thank you. Autos are easier to conceal because they are flat.

SNIP
5.ya seen one, ya seen them all- all the same
END
Not really some have you push the cylinder release some pull some you press in.

SNIP
6.few shots needed to function test
END
True

SNIP
7.feeds all ammo in correct caliber
END
True. A lot of autos come close though. But for most serious social users this is a non issue as they will be using one type of ammo.

SNIP
8.misfires reflexively corrected- pull trigger again
END
True but a tap rack access drill is not that hard.

SNIP
9.always availible to second user- point n shoot
END

Some autos are nearly as simple. I can hand a glock to a new user and its point and shoot for up to 18 rounds.

SNIP
10.easy for beginners
END
Yes and no again. Easy to load and manipulate at beginning levels. Harder to shoot in da and harder to perform tactical functions like speed loading and tac loading.

SNIP
11.loading is easy
END
Try it under stress. An auto is much easier to load.

SNIP
12.easy to unload, make safe
END
True less steps than with an auto.

SNIP
13.easy to shoot- no da/sa,safeties,no limp wrist,no hair trigger
END
False its easier to shoot a short trigger autos vs a revolver with a long hard da pull. And if you cock a revolver it has a HAIR trigger. Your terminology not mine.

SNIP
14.less expensive
END
True

SNIP
15.greater tactical versatility-contact shot with no jams
END

False for the greater tactical versatility. If it were true tactical teams would use revolvers, Newsflash we don’t. It is true that revolvers are less likely to malfunction if you use improper technique and shove the gun into your attacker.

SNIP
16.looks nicer- jury friendly
END

Not really. I saw a person get racked in court because he switched to a 44 mag as his carry piece and had a shooting. The good guy still won despite the attorney’s tactics.

SNIP
17.grips are adjustible with aftermarket grips
END
True

SNIP
18.pocket fire
END
Only true of concealed hammer revolvers.

SNIP
19. four season carry
END

I carry a auto for all seasons.

SNIP
20. cheap pratice-.22lr understudy
END
Same can be said of autos. Its even better with autos as you can buy 22 conversion units and shoot your carry gun with cheap ammo. No need for a new expensive revolver.

SNIP
21.points well
END

Pure opinion

SNIP
22.can't fatally foul grip- even poor grip can shoot gun
END

If you have a weak finger your going to have a hard time with the da.

SNIP
23.less likely to AD- DA trigger
END

FALSE more ND (NEGLIGENT NOT ACCIDENTAL) discharges are logged with da revolvers than any other gun type.

SNIP
24.stopping power in small package
END

Same for autos. Try a Glock 33 in 357 sig.

SNIP
25.safer after incident no decock/safeties
END

False you’re the safety factor not the gun. A unsafe person is unsafe period.
Pat

 

[Benton]

I own several pistols and revolvers and enjoy shooting them with respectable proficiency. Either type can perform the same service equally well for me, except in one circumstance. I find that the revolver is far easier for me to shoot one-handed.

I grew up with a 1911 and only acquired and shot semi-autos until hired as a police officer in early adulthood. At work I was often encumbered with flashlight, keys, and whatnot in one hand, so at the range I started paying attention to my ability to quickly and accurately place shots with my S&W Model 64. It was surprising to me how much easier it was to shoot than any of my single or double action pistols when forced to do without support of my weak hand.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this an advantage of the revolver over semi-auto?

 

[Nightcrawler]

Personal attacks? Problem?

You've made your very strong opinions on the superiority of the autoloader known, and I assumed (correctly) that it was only a matter of time before you entered this thread. Just like one would assume that Mike Irwin, for example, would chime in in a thread about S&W revolvers, or Skunkabilly in a reference to Carbon Fiber.

Calling revolvers "obsolete", and saying that autoloaders are always better for personal defense sidearms is going to get you a little noteriety.

If this was interpreted as a "personal attack", I do apologize. I was merely poking fun.

Anyway.

Pat's points are valid, as are those of the people that prefer revolvers. I think that really, it comes down to which you prefer and which you shoot better. If you shoot a 5-shot single action revolver superbly, but can't hit the broad side of a barn with a Glock 17, then you really ought to carry the hogleg in lieu of the Glock.

Both, of course, have their advantages and disadvantges, as with every firearm. I too find that the traditional "revolver" grip lends itself to one-handed shooting moreso than the grip angles on automatics. Unfortunately, those same target grips are uncomfortable for two-handed shooting, I've found.