My two cents on the .25 Auto after being shot by one.

[Shaq]

Thanks for sharing. I hope you are done with cheap pistols. Reminded me of a less-painful lesson:

While I was working in retail firearms, a customer drove up, parked his $80,000.00 car, walked in & asked to look at a Raven .25. At the time, we were selling them for $59.95 - on sale.
While he was handling it, he asked me, "Is this a good gun?"
I answered, "With firearms, you get what you pay for; with this gun, you're not paying much, so you can't expect much."
He decided to buy it & said he was just going to keep it in his car. While filling out the forms, I said, "Like many cheap guns, there is no firing pin safety, so I wouldn't carry or store it with a round in the chamber because if you drop it or the gun receives any type of impact, it could fire."
He didn't seem concerned.
A few months later, he returned & asked to look at a Sig pistol. I said, "It's good that you appreciate a quality gun now."
He said "I learned my lesson & it cost be big time. I was getting out of my car & the gun fell on the pavement & fired. The bullet went through my center console & screwed up the electronics. $4,000 in repairs."
I said, "Consider yourself lucky."

 

[mljdeckard]

Everything the OP says sounds completely reasonable. Of course it's a gun, and it's better than nothing. I still give it very low marks for the likelihood it will incapacitate.

 

[bangswitch]

Having worked several years in a large hospital emergency room I have seen a fair share of gunshot wounds. Your comment and experience with FMJ makes a strong point about penetration vs. expansion. I could post some true gunshot wounds I saw treated but knowing this forum I would be called a liar.

Not by me, you wouldn't. I've been an operating room nurse for 34 years, minus the 8 years I was a USAF Flight Nurse. I've seen pretty much any kind of GSW you can imagine, from .22 to .50BMG plus shotguns. None are pretty, and it's surprising both how much damage a "little" round like a .25 can do, and how someone could even survive a .50BMG.

Glad you made it through your confrontation with the .25, OP.

 

[Thunderchicken]

I was impressed that you decided to share your experience. It may have a positive effect on some of us reading it. Also--glad you are recovered.

On the "will it fire" question, I dropped a loaded .45 XD/M on a concrete floor from a crappy bargain shoulder holster (now in the landfill) and nothing happened. Doesn't mean it's safe, but it was encouraging. I had a Raven .25 almost 40 years ago and it wouldn't shoot through an old truck hood at the gravel pit. It did not occur to the me that I was significantly softer than that sheet metal.

 

[Bullseye]

Very glad you survived that horrible experience. I appreciate the story as it reminds me that I need to always be careful.
That had to be awful in so many ways. I got rid of my Raven 25.
I never have one in the chamber unless I am ready to fire when I have a autoloader.
On a couple rare occasions I have racked it and had it in my hand or handy in the car going through a bad neighborhood.
I dropped a sig 2340 once and a Rossi 877 revolver at another time recently at the range. No damage or discharge. The sig wasn't chambered and the Rossi was empty and I caught it with my foot, breaking the fall.
I read your post thoroughly. I just had my gallbladder out the hard way with 15 staples and a 7 1/2 inch cut. No comparison.
That was a tough recovery for me. I can't imagine your ordeal.
Have you been affected so much that you do anything different with firearms now? I'd like to know.
So glad you're OK. It could have been worse, bad as it was.

 

[Deaf Smith]

My wife has worked in Truama I, ER, CVICU, CV OR, and she says in the ER they had lots of people come in shot.

Those shot with .22/.25 many times walked in complaining. As the cartridges power (caliber, bullet shape, velocity, etc.) and shot placement improved more were carried in, some though still talking.

But, those hit square with a shotgun were always carried in, and NEVER talking (or even awake.)

She said those shot with shotguns and bird shot didn't look so bad when they cleaned up all the blood, but when they cracked open their chest, there was so much internal bleeding from so many organs hit, it was hard to stop all the bleeding.

So, even though a .25 should not be laughed at, I'd still lean towards more effective rounds.

Deaf

 

[Alte Schule]

Along with the excellent medical care you received your positive attitude and determination towards healing did a lot to help you recover from this unfortunate incident and hope you continue to recover. As someone who has had (military related and completely different circumstances) internal injuries such as yours I can sympathize. Every day stepping out of the shower and see that scar running from the bottom of my rib cage to my pubic line reminds me of it. Just putting out your story reminds us all of how, in just an instant, your life can be changed.
After getting married 45 or so years ago and starting a family and, although I had a shotgun and .22 rifle in the house, I wanted something I could carry when I needed too but I was a LOL poor college student going to school on the old GI Bill. About 1980 I found a Beretta 950 .25 Auto. and I believed I paid $80 for it which, for me at the time, was a lot of money. Over the years I don't know how many firearms I have traded and sold but I have always kept that Beretta. My 42 year old son told me once that one of his earliest memories is of me slipping that pistol into the front pocket of my jeans before we left the house. It will be passed down to him one day.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The Beretta 950 .25 Auto, of the very few .25s I've owned, was the most reliable semi-auto I ever met. I said semi-autos, not .25s. It was that reliable.

Mine had no thumb safety. You cocked or not cocked the gun (or sprung the barrel to remove the round if you wanted it chamber loaded or unloaded.)

Deaf

 

[Coltdriver]

Thanks for sharing.

I have a Browning Baby in .25, also a striker fired design. After taking it apart to replace a few things it became clear that carrying this thing cocked was real dangerous. The safety in no way interacts with the striker and the movement to release the striker is probably not much more than a 1/16th inch.

FMJ is the only round to carry in a .25. The penetration of that round on you was impressive.

Glad you survived.

 

[mbok1947]

The first police officer I knew who was killed in the line of duty was with his partner one night in 1971 on a traffic stop. There were five people in the car, which turned out to be stolen. One tried to flee on foot and the officer ran and tackled him to the ground about 15 feet from the car. That suspect's brother (they were both well known multiple felons) rolled out of the back seat as the second officer was trying to control the driver, leaned over the trunk and fired one round from a .25 auto. It penetrated the first officer's armpit and, as the autopsy later showed, transected his aorta, causing almost immediate loss of cranial blood pressure and, within a few moments, death.

Freak shot certainly, but it shows what can happen with even the smallest of mouse guns. By the way the killer got life and just last year died in prison.

 

[Hanshi]

I have a .25 Raven and never carry it. I took it out to a private property where the owner had some "old" computer monitors he'd been shooting at. I was surprised that the glass face could stop the little FMJ bullet. A second shot in the same location usually did get through, however. I bought the little pistol at the LGS for $35 on special.

I have two friends who carried High Standard derringers; one was a sheriff's deputy. The LEO friend was pulling his out of a back pocket when it went off, streaking (painfully) his right hip. The other one was shot in the leg with his. While I was a working LEO a good friend dropped his Ruger Security Six while entering his home. It went off striking him in the leg with a .357 HP. We were in the hospital at the same time; me, from a separate situation. I've had two ADs; but since I'm very careful they were pointed in a safe direction.

The .25 may not be much in the way of protection; but it's still very dangerous and has caused quite a few deaths. No one wants to get shot; bullets belong in the gun, not in the body. I so very happy that you survived your accident with no permanent injuries; you were probably, thankfully, lucky. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[Glock Doctor]

I've had several .25's over the years but only one little Colt now. I don't carry it (supposedly not drop safe) but I've been thinking about a Beretta 21 Bobcat .25 that is for sale locally. I'd probably carry it some in addition to something else. Same pawn shop has a Brauer .25

The owner's manual that came with my Beretta Model 3032 Tomcat (32 ACP) clearly states that it should NOT be carried with a round in the chamber. Nice little pistol, though; and, because of the wide back-strap, it's very easy to transition down to from a full-size pistol frame, AND stay accurate! Still, and just to be safe, I always carry it in C-3.

The big problem with 25 ACP is not that it can't either kill, or substantially mess someone up. 25 ACP is a 'killer'; but a 'stopper' it ain't ever going to be! (I've had some ridiculous experiences with 32 ACP, as well — Experiences that have taught me to never fire only once.)

 

[zb338]

Thanks for sharing that story with us. It is an example of making a mistake and
really paying for it. Lets face it guns can be dangerous when mistakes are made
and knowing about someone else's mistakes might help us from not doing the
same thing. Thank God you came through it all in the end.
Zeke

 

[JTHunter]

The OP is lucky and I'm glad he survived to tell his tale.

I have a Colt Junior .25 ACP that I "inherited" some years ago and it was NiB - until I got it! Even with that little short barrel, I can put 3 of 4 shots in the black at 50' with factory hollowpoints. I also have used an icepick to enlarge the HP hole with no detrimental effect on accuracy.
While I agree that this caliber is NOT a desirable defensive round, having it in a drawer of my computer desk makes it VERY convenient for answering the door after dark - without the gun being seen. That is the point however - to not be seen and get the drop on somebody not expecting something like that.

 

[strambo]

Welcome back to THR OP, thanks for sharing and glad you're OK!

If you took that same hit in a gunfight, I doubt you would have passed out. You'd be under a full adrenaline dump and mentally focused on staying alive.

 

[W.E.G.]

Gunshot wounds are unpredictable.

I was involved in a case where a drug-user answered a knock at his front door. His drug dealer greeted him by firing one shot with a 9mm into the head of the drug user. The bullet penetrated the flesh in the center-forehead. From there, the bullet traversed between the flesh and the skull for 6-8" and exited the flesh at the rear of the resident's head.

The resident called 911. Upon examination, the resident had nothing more than a pair of puncture wounds. The wounds were cleaned on the scene by medics, and band-aids applied. Beyond that, the resident declined transport to the hospital. However, the resident was transported to the cellblock for processing, as he had an outstanding probation violation warrant. He didn't seem to mind being locked up, as he had some concern that his drug dealer might not consider the matter closed.

I respondend to Howard University Hospital one weekend night in the 80's for a gunshot wound. The patient informed me that he had been involved in some sort of disagreement with a street prostitute, which culminated in the prostitute's pimp approaching the patient's car, and shooting him once in the left clavicle area with a .25 automatic. Once again, the bullet penetrated the flesh, and traversed from the left clavicle area, across the shoulders, and down the right arm, where the bullet came to rest at the right elbow, just below the skin. The bullet was removed via a small incision at the elbow. Again, two band-aids, and patient released from the ER. I wrote a report for ADW (gun), but I don't think there was much investigation as such.

About 50 years ago, I was sure I'd shot myself in the hand with my uncle's .22 POS snubnose (Roehm I think) revolver. I was trying to clear misfire that had to do with failure-to-index when it discharged. I can remember my ears ringing and my hand stinging. I remember looking at my hand, and it seemed like my whole palm was silver colored (powder residue). I was just a lad, and I was pretty scared. On closer inspection, the bullet had grazed the palm of my hand, and a couple fingers, without actually penetrating the flesh. We were done shooting rocks off the fence rails for the day.

Dad later learned that a .22 puts out quite a bit of spew at the muzzle. He discovered that after using the white vinyl roof of his Ford for a rest, and fired 7 shots before he noticed what was happening.

One of these days, somebody's gonna put an eye out around here.

Glad you lived to tell the tale OP.

Not long before my crazy uncle died, he insisted on showing me his gun collection. Sure enough, he still had that damn Roehm-or-whatever snubnose .22. It still wouldn't index right. It was all I could do to not stick that gun in my pants when he wasn't looking. If ever there was a gun that needed to be thrown off a tall bridge...

 

[floridaboy]

I personally witnessed a grown man accidentally shot at about 10 feet distance, with a .22 short, from a 5.5" Ruger revolver. Hit about 2-3" below the belt, pretty close to dead center. Nicked his spleen, turned and ended up under the skin, just below the armpit. Lived, but barely. It's amazing how much that tiny slug penetrated.

 

[pezo]

Back in the day people would tell me that a .22 was the worst round to get hit by because it would rattle around inside you. Granted your case it was a .25. Still. Sounds like an accurate description. Glad you're alive. This story tells me the most about how important it is to carry a drop safe handgun. I've embarrassingly dropped my lcr twice. The cylinder had rotated a bit off the bolt but no bang and no damage. Not even cosmetic. That is an amazing gun. Drop safe is something to consider in a carry piece.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Back in the day people would tell me that a .22 was the worst round to get hit by because it would rattle around inside you.

The .22 was the worse cause a) low velocity and thus bacteria can/could survive the flight, b) outside lubricated bullets picked up lint & dirt & other stuff, and c) yes they tend to stay inside. Thus infection.

And as super bugs are not becoming prevalent, that is immune to antibiotics, you will see the .22 become very deadly again.

Deaf

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Deadly...eventually, maybe. Nobody knows until it happens.

 

[Alte Schule]

Agreed...

 

[greenmtnguy]

Glad to hear that you are recovering well and still with us. Your story is an important one to read for a number of reasons - thank you for having the courage and taking the time to share it with us so that we all can learn from your accident.

 

[mbok1947]

Re the guy shot in the forehead, I saw that too on one occasion. Responded to a shooting at a bar and it turned out two old guys had been playing dominoes when they fell into a wine-driven dispute and Guy 1 pulled out an old .32 revolver and fired from about a foot away. Upon arrival and while waiting for the ambulance we talked with Guy 2 who said he had a really bad headache. We kept waiting for him to show signs of this apparent bullet to the brain wound and maybe crash down dead like Sollozo shot by Michael Corleone in the Godfather movie. Nope. Careful examination by the paramedics showed the same kind of wound noted above, where the round skidded up and over the skull and in this case lodged under the scalp at the top of his head.

When the lab popped the old .32 open the rounds were pretty well cemented in by green mold. Likely the powder charge was pretty deficient too. I think Guy 1 had probably loaded that revolver about 1955 and never touched it until that night!

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Interesting stories in this thread!

 

[zaitcev]

I think back at the two times I've dropped loaded handguns...a Glock 27 and a Charter Arms Undercover.

Both Glock and Charter are drop-safe by virtue of additional safeties. In fact, Glock has 2: the split trigger prevents the inertia of the transfer bar from moving at impact and firing the gun, and the firing pin safety prevents the striker from moving. Charter Arms revolvers use a transfer bar, so you can have them drop hammer down onto concrete and not fire. I suspect that Ryan's .25 Raven predates the times when these additional safeties became commonplace.