My two cents on the .25 Auto after being shot by one.

[Ryan L]

Hi Y'all,

(If this is in the wrong place, my apologies.)

My name Is Ryan. I used to hang around a few years ago bur forgot my username and password after switching computers. Anyway, as the title says I just wanna throw in my two cents on the stopping power of a .25 Auto. I've read countless articles and forums on the subject but very rarely it seems you read of someone who has actually been shot by one.


Some of you may say its my fault or that I was being careless, I might even agree with you, but that is besides the point.


I don't intend to tell the whole story but what I do have to say is this: On October 1st of 2016 I was shot in the lower abdomen with a Raven .25 MP-25. It was not a violent situation as much as it was an unfortunate accident. I had just gotten home from an hour and a half long trip to Knoxville and back and I was emptying my jacket pockets onto the top of my dresser as I normally do when I get home for the night. That day I happened to be carrying a Raven .25 in a pocket holster, my body guard .380 was on loan to my mother, after removing everything else from my pockets I removed the gun from my pocket. The holster was a sticky material the stuck the pocket of my jeans so i only removed the gun, not the gun inside the holster from my pocket.

I had 50 grain remington full metal jackets in the magazine as well as one in the chamber, just one day before i had swapped out gold dot hollow points for the FMJ's thinking to myself "If I end up having to use this .25 what real difference will hollow points make?"

I went to set the pistol on the edge of my dresser, which is about four feet tall, I sat the pistol on the front right hand corner of the dresser. As soon as I sat the gun down I knocked it off the dresser and in slow motion I watched it fall to the floor, it landed right on the back of the slide. I didn't hear the gunshot but I remember seeing sparks flying from the barrel and I remember my vision went totally black and white. A sense of dread took over my mind. My mind was running a million miles a minute.

"Oh my god that gun went off."

"Oh my god, Im hit."

Next thing I know I'm pulling myself up off the floor with an open drawer on my dresser. I must have passed out for just a half second or so until the adrenaline hit me. I breathed in and out as deep as I could. My lungs weren't punctured. I wigged all my fingers and toes, they all worked, another good sign. I had a very slow stream of blood coming from my lower abdomen, just two or three drops per minute. I wasn't going to bleed to death, at-least not externally, I hoped my insides weren't bleeding but with my limited medical experience I had run out of ideas to check myself for serious injury.

Everything was still black and white and its hard to describe but everything was very calm and clear in my head. I wasn't going to die any minute or even anytime very soon as far as I could tell. I have a bit of a belly on me. I was convinced that little bullet was just plugged a couple inches into my fat and I'd be in and out of the hospital that night. I was wrong. Having entered from an upward angle into the bottom of my gut on the right side of my body, the bullet had actually traveled the entire length of my body, puncturing my colon as well as my lower intestines and coming to rest just outside my rib cage on my left side. It's so close to the surface of my skin I like to say If that bullet had 5 more grains of powder it would have exited my body.

This is where things get blurry for me. The adrenaline and shock make my memories disjointed and confusing. Having made it to the local hospital, I found myself very quickly loaded onto a helicopter headed to University of Tennessee trauma center. The flight nurse prayed over me as I thought of my best friends and family. Just as soon as we took off we were landing again....

Due to an amazing trauma team led by a highly qualified surgeon I left the operating room with all my plumbing hooked up right and 40 medical staples going from sternum to groin. I spent six days in UT hospital trying and yelling and cussing my way into being able to make three laps around the nurses station on my floor walking with a walker all the while feeling like I'd been cut in half with a sword.....

Anyway, without going into detail of the next three months that followed, I have made a full physical recovery. I'll always have a two foot long scar going down my chest and stomach but I'm still here which is all that matters.

I guess to sum up after rambling on for so long I just have some thoughts on the stopping power of a .25 Auto:

As they say any bullet is better than throwing a rock any day.

Getting gut shot disoriented me and caused me to briefly loose consciousness.

I suppose had it been someone else doing the shooting it would have been quite easy to put a few more rounds in me while I was down. However;

If I had a gun in my hand and this was a violent situation I'm pretty sure I would have been able to get some rounds off before I passed out briefly.

So basically I would say if you are depending on a .25 for protection shoot straight and more than once into your intended target while you have a chance. After waking up from passing out even after a .25 caliber bullet passing through my guts and burring itself into some fat tissue clear across my body I woke up full of energy and adrenaline. In a way it even cleared my mind and I immediately became aware of what I needed to do to survive. I would imagine in a violent situation this would have made me quite dangerous.

This was a stupid accident and in no way has any bearing on what a defensive shooting may go like I just thought a few of y'all might be interested to hear my experience. This is the first time I've written out anything about what happened, if y'all feel like I left anything out of have any questions just let me know.

Thanks y'all,
Ryan.

Edit: For anybody wondering I'm right at 6 feet tall and 250 pounds. I'm a pretty big guy and that .25 absolutely messed me up and only by the grace of god I am here today.

 

[sgt127]

Wow. Glad you are able to sit here now and tell that story!!

I've seen and talked to lots of folks shot. But, pretty rarely do I get there feelings when it happened.

 

[Ryan L]

I'm glad to be here. Thank you!

 

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I remember years ago watching a video from possibly Thailand in which somebody who was severed at mid thorax in a car versus pedestrian accident i believe, and this person was calmly trying to sit-up while pulling in his viscera; and this went on for about 15 minutes if I recall correctly and I don't I think the guy never lost consciousness or died by the end of the video. On the other extreme im sure there are stories of people losing conciousness and dying in a matter of moments from a single shot to some part of the thorax by a 22 short. If you know anatomy and the critical nature of certain vessels you can become religious after learning of the catastrophic injuries people survive and the seemingly trivial ones to say a limb that prove fatal quickly. I'll take a firearm over a rock against a mugger or a grizzly, but notwithstanding your story and the other in this forum about a Grizzly versus a nine millimeter I'll take the big bang over the little bang every time.

 

[Ryan L]

Haha I agree with you. I suppose every injury is totally different as well as every person is different. Just my thoughts from my own experience. I'll always take a big bang over a small bang too !

 

[CajunBass]

Praise the Lord you're still here to tell the story.

A friend of mine was mugged several years ago, and was shot in the arm with a 22. He told me "It hurt like hell."

I've got a 25. It's a safe queen, but if I had to use it, it beats crying and begging.

 

[Odd Job]

That's a lucky escape! I've seen more than 3000 gunshot wounds and one of the most memorable involved a .25 in Johannesburg. Guy was carjacked, shot in the abdomen and thrown out onto the road. By the time he was found and brought to hospital he was DOA.
Bullet didn't travel very far, a much shorter distance than the OP, but it cut an iliac artery. That was also an FMJ.

 

[drband]

Confirms "shot placement" as the most important factor in gunshot injuries.

I wouldn't want to be shot with ANY caliber. Thanks for sharing your experience, OP.

 

[jmorris]

I've read countless articles and forums on the subject but very rarely it seems you read of someone who has actually been shot by one.

If it wasn't equally rare to read about others shot by different calibers, one might deduct that the 25 ACP is a very deadly round to be shot with...

 

[Sav .250]

That falls under the category ......accidents do happen.
One thing for certain a lesson learned.
Glad your ok.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Glad you're ok, and thanks for sharing. Sounds like an unfortunate situation and the angle of entry really had a bearing.

I hope to never join the "I've been shot before" club.

 

[GBExpat]

Wow! As bad as it was, I am glad to hear that the result was not worse.

Thank you for taking the time to share that with us, RyanL!

... Next thing I know I'm pulling myself up off the floor with an open drawer on my dresser. I must have passed out for just a half second or so until the adrenaline hit me. ...

Not unusual for such trauma, apparently. Wake up a brief moment later, on the floor/ground and immediately start analyzing what happened, your circumstances and your condition with your mind clear ... but with an odd clarity. I do not recall ever slipping into B&W mode, though.

 

[Speedo66]

Results vary widely based on shot location and an individual's mindset.

I had a case where a supermarket security guard in Queens was shot 7 times with a .25. Needless to say, this really pissed him off and he beat the living crap out of the guy who shot him. He later testified in court against him. So obviously, different strokes.....

The shooting took place because the security guard wouldn't let the shooter park his car in a no standing zone in the supermarket parking lot.

Also had a guy who was shot point blank in the forehead with a .25. The bullet did not penetrate the skull, but rather followed the contour of the skull under the scalp and exited the scalp at the rear of the skull. He was also able to testify.

I would not choose a .25 as a defense round.

 

[ATLDave]

Thanks for sharing your harrowing tale. Glad it worked out alright for you in the end.

 

[Sistema1927]

Not suggesting that you repeat the performance, but I couldn't help wondering what the outcome would have been if you had left the HPs in the gun.

I am debating with myself as to whether it would have caused more damage or if it might have expanded enough to not penetrate as much thus ending up embedded in stomach flab.

 

[Slamfire]

Thank you for sharing your story and it is wonderful that you are with us today. Your internal injuries, based on what I know about anatomy, would have probably killed you in time. Getting immediate medical care probably made the difference between you being here or not. Even though the 25 Auto is not a very powerful cartridge, it still managed to penetrate deep within your body.

I had a boy hood friend, he had to be less than 15 years of age, and he died due to a discharge of a 22LR in a rifle. He had just passed through a barbed wire fence and in the handling and retrieving of his rifle, somehow it discharged. The bullet went through his upper body, from the front, bounced off his spine, and lodged in his heart, killing him. These little bullets are very dangerous once they get inside a person.

 

[Jim Watson]

Glad you pulled through.

On the other hand, now we know another gun that is not drop safe.

 

[Hanzo581]

Glad you made it out ok. Out of curiosity, why would anyone carry a gun that isn't drop safe? Or was this not known?

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I think back at the two times I've dropped loaded handguns...a Glock 27 and a Charter Arms Undercover.

The Glock on a concrete basement floor and the CA on a concrete driveway. Nothing fired. Ryan L's story is an attention getter.

 

[wally]

This is exactly why you should never carry a loaded gun that is not "drop safe" by design.

Glad you've recovered. Your story should cause anyone carrying one of these "low tier" guns that are not drop safe to reconsider carrying it, or to at least carry it chamber empty.

 

[Jim Watson]

Gunsmith John Lawson had a gunzine column. He wrote of his days of carrying a striker fired auto in his jacket pocket. One night he was awakened by a loud bang from the closet. He said he bought a new jacket and a PPK the next day.

Thread on TFL about a Bubbasmithed pistol going off untouched in the holster, severely wounding the owner's leg.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584725

I wasted study time hanging around a gun store while in college. One day I saw the proprietor at work with torch and silver solder. He was putting a sear lug back on a surplus pistol's striker. An Ortgies, as I recall.

Any time there is a thread on drop safe guns, somebody will come along with an account of one that turned out not to be.
See sig line.

 

[Archie]

Hi Y'all,
My name Is Ryan. I used to hang around a few years ago bur forgot my username and password after switching computers. Anyway, as the title says I just wanna throw in my two cents on the stopping power of a .25 Auto. I've read countless articles and forums on the subject but very rarely it seems you read of someone who has actually been shot by one.

Thanks for telling this. No doubt this is a bit embarrassing for you, but it is a good lesson and good information.

I didn't hear the gunshot but I remember seeing sparks flying from the barrel and I remember my vision went totally black and white.

Fairly common from debriefing gunshot recipients. A certain 'isolation'.

I must have passed out for just a half second or so until the adrenaline hit me.

This varies with people and circumstance.

Had this been a fight or other dangerous (prior knowledge of immediate danger) situation, the adrenaline would have been working sooner, one expects. You may not have passed out at all.

Having entered from an upward angle into the bottom of my gut on the right side of my body, the bullet had actually traveled the entire length of my body, puncturing my colon as well as my lower intestines and coming to rest just outside my rib cage on my left side. It's so close to the surface of my skin I like to say If that bullet had 5 more grains of powder it would have exited my body.

One notes this wound would probably not occur in a 'fight'. The angle of entry is not what one would expect from a shot from an attacker. (Good news in an encounter, sucked for you.)

...I have made a full physical recovery. I'll always have a two foot long scar going down my chest and stomach but I'm still here which is all that matters.

If I didn't say this before, I'm glad this was the result. Good to have you here.

...some thoughts on the stopping power of a .25 Auto:

With my own less than humble observations...

As they say any bullet is better than throwing a rock any day.

Yup. I have to agree with that.

Getting gut shot disoriented me and caused me to briefly loose consciousness.

However, this effect was probably enhanced by circumstance as noted above. Many people have been gut shot, finished the fight and then died of the wound. Being gut shot does not guarantee even a brief lack of ability on the part of the shootee.

...if you are depending on a .25 for protection shoot straight and more than once into your intended target while you have a chance.

Yes, as far as it goes. I would suggest directing fire to a vital component of the adversary's body. Preferably the central nervous system, either brain, spine or some connection thereof. However, one must think three-dimensionally in the body. Not all parts show up as they do from a full frontal view.

I would imagine in a violent situation this would have made me quite dangerous.

No doubt. But that works both ways. Merely wounding an adversary carries the danger of making him more dangerous.

...I just thought a few of y'all might be interested to hear my experience.

Again, my personal thanks. You are brave and honorable to expose yourself in such manner.

I'm a pretty big guy and that .25 absolutely messed me up and only by the grace of god I am here today.

Which points out a serious difference between 'stopping' and 'killing'. A .25 ACP (or most anything else, including an ice pick) round will assuredly kill a person. However, in a defensive encounter, the defender is NOT primarily interested in 'killing' the attacker. The defender wants the attacker to immediately cease the attack. So if one is required by circumstance to shoot, the shot is intended to remove - in some regard - the attacker's ability to continue the attack.

I suggest a .25 ACP is not the best choice for such purpose. It might work, but I am firmly convinced a larger caliber is a better choice. Not to mention proper training to deliver a shot precisely and expediently.

 

[Hokkmike]

Thank you for sharing this story from a unique perspective. Glad you are OK. I wonder how this experience has colored your use of firearms going forward?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'm glad you are OK.

The 25 is still a worthless round IMO.

 

[stchman]

To the OP:

Thanks for the story and glad you made a full recovery. Don't ever buy those POS Saturday Night Special guns. Drop safety is NOT overrated.

I laugh when I hear people say "I don't like .380ACP, I prefer 9mm.", or "It has to have a 4 to be a real caliber.". I always tell them that their personal "feelings" on a particular caliber is irrelevant. A .25ACP belly shot managed to drop a grown man to the ground.