.269.6 Picher Mag?

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Picher

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I'm thinking of developing a "designated" 6.95mm Magnum that would be a fantastic hunting round for medium game, providing easy 400 yard ballistics for quick-kills on deer and larger Northern Hemisphere mammals. It would be loaded with 130 grain tipped bullets at about 3,200 fps and would kill most popular North American animals like a lightning bolt from the heavens.

It could be handloaded using .270 Winchester dies and use 130 grain bonded bullets to 3,200 fps, using Reloder 22 and strike deer like they'd been hit by lightning. (That's because it is really a .270 Winchester with attitude!)

Ha ha.
 
The funny thing is people sing love songs about 280 remington and 6.5-06, but somehow 270 is despised.

‘Cuz it’s boringly common... who wants a cartidge which does exactly what it should, nothing more, easily accessible, easily reloaded, with no exciting individual attribute, nothing to complain over, and equally nothing to brag over?

Most conversations about .270win in the hunting field are about as exciting as a conversation about dress socks... :p
 
I don't think the .270 is exactly despised, but on paper it suffers in today's world of super long, extra pointy high bc, lazy beamers bullets.
The 1-10 twist is just too slow, similar to the .25s
The 6mms and 6.5s are all amazeballs right now, but the .257s are mostly only used by hunters, and fewer and fewer of us are choosing the .25s
The .270s faring better, there are some long pointy bullets being developed, and fast twist barrels are available.

IMO (and yes I'm a .270 hater, but I don't have a real reason). There's very little difference between any of the .264-.308s on game at ranges under 400yds, provided the correct bullet is used, and it's put in the correct spot.

I happen to like 7mms, but they don't kill any better than .277s, or .264s of similar weight. The .30s I prefer to have an extra 15gr on the others, but drive that extra weight to the same speed and your (getting kicked pretty hard) likely to notice some difference.
 
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I remember ~15yrs ago when the Quarter Bores were all the rage... then we had the 7mm mag craze when the 7Rum “rocked the world” as a canyon flying western elk missile, 5yrs ago we all got choked by the 6.5mm mania, which is being overshadowed now by the 6mm’s...

Just seems like folks forget - BC, bullet weight, sectional density, and velocity really aren’t that complicated.
 
I think a lot of .270 hunters don't handload. Handloading provides the same kinds of bullet choices as the whiz-bang cartridges are loaded with. Besides, for shooting deer, most are shot inside of 400 yards and that's the .270's realm. The ol' '06 is as good, or better out to 300 yards, but the flatter-shooting .270 does better beyond that. That's the distance I've shot a quite a few deer at our old ground blind. 700CDL a.jpg
 
And here I thought this thread was gonna be about a new wildcat. I've never owned a .270 but friends of mine have and I've seen .270's do their thing in the wide open spaces on things like antelope in Wyoming. Regardless of if you're in the woods or open plains a .270 is never a bad choice on deer size game. Its been working so well since the 1920's that I'm surprised there haven't been more cartridges designed using that bore size.
 
The ol' '06 is as good, or better out to 300 yards, but the flatter-shooting .270 does better beyond that.
Only if you're shooting 1925 era loads. That statement was basically true 90 years ago, but bullets, loads, powder and optics have come a long way.

As to trajectory, modern 30-06 loads are right with 270. You can push a 130 gr 270 to about 3200 fps. You can push a 150 gr 30-06 to 3100 fps. At 300 yards the 30-06 has 3/4" more drop. At 500 yards the 30-06 has less than 5" more drop and with modern range finders and optics bullet drop isn't even a consideration.

Handloading provides the same kinds of bullet choices as the whiz-bang cartridges are loaded with.

Unfortunately no! The 270 is, and always has been a great hunting cartridge with the bullets available in the past. It's achilles heel is that the barrels twist rates aren't designed for modern bullets and it will always be limited by that. The 30-06, really by chance more than anything else, is suited for modern bullets that will give it an edge at truly long range. Modern 175-200 gr high BC bullets from a 30-06 will hang very close to 270 trajectory with 140-150 gr bullets, and they hit a lot harder and are blown around by the wind a lot less. The difference in recoil is negligible, about 1 ft lb difference.

Now, if you are looking for an unfilled niche we need something in 29 caliber.
 
It's achilles heel is that the barrels twist rates aren't designed for modern bullets

But what about .277 weatherby mag? What twist does it run? If it’s better then a blank chambered to .270 win would be nice, but I bet most .277s follow the twist for the win.
 
the WBY twists 1-10. You CAN get fast twist .277s from a couple barrel manufacturers, and there ARE some heavy, long vld type bullets available.
 
As you can see from the picture I posted above, our favorite deer blind limits view to about 15 feet wide out to 500 yards. I didn't have a doe permit last year, but saw over 40 does go by and a couple of small bucks that I declined to shoot on opening day. The deer only appeared in the road for about 10 seconds, so we don't have time for rangefinders. My rifle is sighted-in to minimize holdover out to 400 yards.

Opening day last year, after seeing so many deer, I decided to not shoot a buck the first day, so sat back and left the rifle, as shown in the previous post's photo. A few minutes later I saw what looked like a bare tree moving from my left, about 130 yards away. It surprised me so much I wasn't aware that it was a huge rack, moving quickly toward the road. I leaned forward and clumsily grabbed at the rifle as the buck entered the opening.

Mounting the rifle as best I could, I got the crosshairs on/near the shoulder, and as it made it to the right ditch, his front legs found the ditch and his back dropped about 6". At the shot the deer jumped high in the air with it's head upward, and twisted around. When he came down, he jumped back toward where he came and ran off. I was so surprised, I didn't work the action to get another shot, but wouldn't have had time anyway.

I though I'd hit it well, but it took me about 15 minutes to find where he'd been when I shot. I finally found a clump of what looked like back hair and a little skin/fat, but no blood. Unfortunately, my rifle was sighted-in to be about 1.5" high at 100 yards, so the combination of the buck's front legs dropping down in the ditch, the trajectory of the bullet being about 1 3/4" high and my clumsy rifle mounting caused the shot to be a bit too high. Following the tracks to the left of the road, I found the new tracks and followed them for a quarter-mile, but didn't find a drop of blood, then lost them among all the other tracks in the leaves.

The next week, we had a tremendous wind storm that knocked all kinds of trees down in our hunting woods, blocking access by ATV. My son finally got some of the second access path cleared out, so we could get a deer out by ATV, but it wasn't easy getting in and out by foot. After shooting a moose a couple of weeks before, we didn't have any freezer room left anyway. Hopefully, nobody else got that buck and I'll get another chance this season.
 
Don’t worry the bullet makers haven’t forgot about the 270. Plenty of bullets in the 5’s for ballistic coefficient for the 270 which match or nearly match their 6.5 little brothers.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...4-diameter-140-grain-sst-boat-tail-box-of-100

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...7-diameter-150-grain-sst-boat-tail-box-of-100

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...65mm-264-diameter-140-grain-spitzer-box-of-50

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...iber-277-diameter-150-grain-spitzer-box-of-50

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...m-264-diameter-143-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...r-277-diameter-145-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100

And yes I know their are heavier 6.5 eld bullets with better BC’s but we are talking about hunting at hunting ranges. 800 yards is not a realistic hunting range for me or 99% of people. If it is for you, more power to you. The 270 as a hunting cartridge is just as relevant and effective as it ever has been and though it can be outperform ballistically the margin will be slim. For the majority of people hunting within 300 yards and buying a box of ammo a year there are many cartridges that are it’s equal but none better.
 
@someguy2800 - you’re really pulling the thread which should never be pulled!

I fully agree - “optimal” is a very small subset of “functional.” Given sufficient velocity, say from a .270win, even a low BC round nose will get to any reasonable hunting distance well enough. It won’t have as much punch as a more efficient bullet, so a guy has a valid complaint to say the recoil at the starting block is unnecessarily heavy for the level of performance at the finish line, but hey, we call a .300win mag a “deer rifle.” Round nose or super slippery, a high velocity round with sufficient bullet will still do a lot of killing at 600-800yrds. Equally, the trajectory of said really isn’t unmanageable.

Is it easier with a higher BC bullet? Sure. Is it more efficient in terms of performance/recoil? Sure. Is the difference between hunting with a .4 vs. a .6 BC at 800yrds a discussion of can and cannot? Not hardly.

I did most of my irresponsibly long range hunting in younger years, and did most of it with 150-165grn .30-06 loads, with BC’s in the mid to upper .4’s. I’ve put holes in the backside of coyotes past 800yrds with poor BC 50 V-max’s In 223rem as well. I could have hit harder and gotten more out of my rifle using a 140grn 6.5-06 instead of my 30 Springer, or using 77 SMK’s instead of 50 Vmax’s, but dead is dead, and dead did happen.

But if we didn’t incessantly argue the minutia between optimal and functional, or even the metrics for such, we probably wouldn’t have online forums!
 
Back to the original suggestion by the OP, I like the idea. I think I would buy one and put it in the rack right next to my 300 Whelen Express.

On hunting stories: I see from the picture the OP referenced that he also hunts in a sendero (Texas-speak, or Logging road in Maine-speak). I muffed a shot last year in early November with my now-retired 308 and lost the blood trail after following it for about a quarter mile (2 hrs tracking by two of us) in very heavy brush on a rocky hill side (the strained ligaments in my foot took about 5 month to heal and are still tender). The deer I shot later that week with a 243 went about 50 yards and left 1 drop of blood about 10 feet from where he was standing when I hit it. It took about an hour to find. I ended up following the scuffed hoofprints...Later that day, the border collie pup that my brother is training to track wounded game found the spot where the deer finally fell in about 5 minutes...We don't have to worry about things like doe permits on the ranch, and we have a 5 deer limit (no more than two bucks) per year on a season that runs from early-November to early-January. However, the whitetails are much smaller in our neck of the desert.
 
I'm thinking of developing a "designated" 6.95mm Magnum that would be a fantastic hunting round for medium game, providing easy 400 yard ballistics for quick-kills on deer and larger Northern Hemisphere mammals. It would be loaded with 130 grain tipped bullets at about 3,200 fps and would kill most popular North American animals like a lightning bolt from the heavens.

It could be handloaded using .270 Winchester dies and use 130 grain bonded bullets to 3,200 fps, using Reloder 22 and strike deer like they'd been hit by lightning. (That's because it is really a .270 Winchester with attitude!)

Ha ha.
You forgot 90gr bullets at 3700 fps. For exploding varmints.
 
In nearly 60 years of deer hunting in Maine, I don't recall seeing many deer beyond 500 yards, but being a conservationist, I won't shoot that far at a deer that far. Too many things can happen to a bullet, or to the deer's position for me to want to shoot at one beyond about 400 yards. It's one thing to shoot at a coyote, a gong, etc., but a deer is a beautiful animal and I just don't want to wound one that gets away to suffer an agonizing death, or live for hours or days in severe pain. Having shot many deer over the years, I'm just not that desperate to score.
You forgot 90gr bullets at 3700 fps. For exploding varmints.

I used 90 grain bullets for turkey shoot and running deer competitions, but having a dedicated varmint rifle, didn't use them for varmints.
 
Funny thing happened with the 90 grain "target" bullets loaded very light for turkey shoots. I checked that I had my two 5-round neoprene cartridge holders in my fanny-pack. I grabbed a yellow plastic cartridge box and took five rounds out and put them in my coat pocket. When I finally got into position and at legal shooting time, I took the five rounds in my pocked that I'd taken out of a box and quietly loaded them into the rifle, then positioned my folding seat to cover a small field about 40 yards away, and 20 yards from a well-tracked crossing.

A while later, I used my grunt call and heard...then saw a fork-horn about 50 yards away in the woods to my right and fired as it got to a small opening. The deer kind of stumbled, then went behind some trees. A few minutes later it emerged about 20 yards from the old haul road I was sitting on and headed towards the crossing point. I decided to fire if/when it made it to the road and was just about to squeeze the trigger when it dropped at the edge of the road.

After making sure it was dead, I unloaded the rifle and was very surprised to see my target rounds in the magazine! I'd grabbed the wrong box from the truck! The shot placement was perfect in the lungs, but the deer had walked 50 yards before dropping. I decided to keep my deer ammo in a different-colored box after that.
 
Funny thing happened with the 90 grain "target" bullets loaded very light for turkey shoots. I checked that I had my two 5-round neoprene cartridge holders in my fanny-pack. I grabbed a yellow plastic cartridge box and took five rounds out and put them in my coat pocket. When I finally got into position and at legal shooting time, I took the five rounds in my pocked that I'd taken out of a box and quietly loaded them into the rifle, then positioned my folding seat to cover a small field about 40 yards away, and 20 yards from a well-tracked crossing.

A while later, I used my grunt call and heard...then saw a fork-horn about 50 yards away in the woods to my right and fired as it got to a small opening. The deer kind of stumbled, then went behind some trees. A few minutes later it emerged about 20 yards from the old haul road I was sitting on and headed towards the crossing point. I decided to fire if/when it made it to the road and was just about to squeeze the trigger when it dropped at the edge of the road.

After making sure it was dead, I unloaded the rifle and was very surprised to see my target rounds in the magazine! I'd grabbed the wrong box from the truck! The shot placement was perfect in the lungs, but the deer had walked 50 yards before dropping. I decided to keep my deer ammo in a different-colored box after that.
After seeing what a 90gr Sierra Varminter does to crows and Armadillos, I am not surprised by your results.
 
Like the .25s, .270 is a fine hunter but never got picked up by the military or target shooters, never kept up with other calibers.

How many factory cartridges behind the .277" bullet?
6.8mm Chinese Mauser, .270 WCF, .270 Weatherby, 6.8mm SPC. More?
Compared to how many each .22, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, .30?
Aren't there more than four .338s?
 
.270WSM!
Uhhhmmmm.....thats al i got

there are at least 6 .338s that i can think of of hand .338Win, .338Fed, .338Ultra, .338Lapua, .340WBY (only one i want), .338-378WBY...i THINK they made that a factory round
 
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