.270 bolt: which one?

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AStone

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'Twas almost the night before Christmas,
& all through the house,
not a creature was stirring,
not even a mouse...
because Nematocyst-870
was walking around with a SW 642 in his pocket.

But that's another story.

I'm starting this thread to ask advice about a rifle.

Said rifle will not be purchased right away, because I've already expended my gun budget for the year
(new one coming up soon, however...) AND I like to think about new purchases for a few months before buying.

Some of you may remember a thread I started several months ago asking advice about a rifle. Back then, I was considering .30 calibers (.30-30, .30-06, .308, .357...). But after more reading and research, things haved changed.

I've decided that .30's are more than I need (except the .30-30, which drops off too quickly for range...). I don't like the heavy recoil of the big ones, and don't think I need them since the biggest thing I'm looking to hunt is mule deer. (Well, OK, maybe elk someday, but they're not at the top of my list.)

Thus, after MUCH reading on THR, I've currently landed on .270 as the right caliber for me. Intermediate between .243 on the light end and .308/.30-06 on the shoulder bruising side, yet big enough for most of what I'm looking for.

{Speaking of recoil: can anyone tell me how the recoil of a .270 compares to .30-30 & .30-06?}

Yes, I'm going to stay with .270 Win instead of .270 WSM for a variety of reason: not interested in magnum, like the range of cartridges available for the Win...

Even though I've made noises in other threads about the possibility of a pump (notably, Remington's 7600, to match the action of my shottie), I'm now thinking the better option will be a bolt action for that extra accuracy. (My .22 LR is a CZ452, so a bolt centerfire will not be lonely.)

So, right now, I'm researching bolt action .270 Win.

Because of the part of the country I'm living in, I'm interested in stainless with synthetic stock.

Since I'm trying to stay under $600, top contenders are (in no particular order now):


I'd like to consider the Remington 700 XCR, but at nearly $200 more than the straight up 700, I don't think it's in my budget.

I like the Rem because it's a name I trust (see my user name; but that trust does not extend to their 710, which got POS reviews on THR), and I like the R3 pad.

I like the Savage because it's highly recommended in other threads, and because of its 22" barrel (I'm fond of closer to carbine rifles). However, I'm being told by more than one that the Savage kicks like a mule, at least in larger calibers.

I'm including the Ruger & Tikka to round out the mix, even though I know little about either yet.

I'm not including Weatherby because the Vanguard doesn't get such good reviews as the Tikka, and their standard model is out of my price range.

I have not yet begun a serious "pick it up and hold it to see which one feels best" investigation, and am fully aware that will (ney, MUST) play a huge role in which rifle I ultimately buy.

However, I'd enjoy hearing any advice from owners of any of these in a same or similar caliber, or any others I may be overlooking.

Thanks in advance.

Now, where'd I leave my glass of egg nog?

Nem
 
.270 Win kicks almost the same as a 30.06 etc... At least close enough to not matter.

Take a look at 7MM-08 or, if you reload, 260 Remington. Both of those are lighter recoiling and will getRdone. The 7MM-08 will work on everything in the PNW.


Savage would be my choice then the Tikka.
 
steelhead said:
.270 Win kicks almost the same as a 30.06 etc... At least close enough to not matter.
Click to expand...
Ouch. :(

Wow, that's disappointing news. I'd gotten the impression from reading that it was lighter, between the aught six & the .243.

I'm wondering if others agree. Is it rifle dependent?

Nem
 
It is but still real close to the 30.06. I would rank the recoil of each in this order (most to least):

30.06
.270

(gaps indicate noticeable difference between cartridges when fired from a similar rifle)

.308

260 Remington/7MM-08


.243/ .30.30


Of course it is dependent on the weight of the rifle. The Savage 16, in 7mm-08, weighs 6.5 pounds and will kick more than a Remington CDL that weighs 7.5 pounds, etc..

The .270 is a great cartridge and the recoil isn't that bad but it is not a lightweight either. Get a Browning BAR, from Wally world ($699), in .308 or
.270 and call it good. The semi-auto will further reduce the felt recoil - if that is a concern.

If you are just looking for punching paper get a bolt action in .223. For deer and lopes the .243. For deer/lopes/elk and black bear the 7mm-08 @ <300 yards. For deer/lopes/elk and black bear .270 or 7mm RM @ >300 yards


http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2685188
 
First of all, let me say you have good taste in rifles. Any of those would be a good choice. My deer rifle is a 700 ADL in .270 Win and it is hell of a gun. Of course they don't make the ADL anymore, but the SPS is a nice rifle. (My cousin has one in 7mm Mag) The SS finish is matte, not a mirror pole. The Tikka is supposed to be quite accurate, as is the Savage and with it you get the Accu-Trigger. I would go get a feel for them and let that be the judge. Good luck, post pics when you get something. :D
 
The Browning A-Bolts are real nice too. I really like their stainless stalker, but might be just a tiny bit over budget.
 
It has also been my impression that .30-06 and .270 both pack a bit of a WHUMP, even though I've never shot a .270.

However, I have .308 and I've been very pleased w/ that. And I'm a wuss when it comes to recoil. It is also a really good cartridge at range. That might be a good compromise.

I bought a Remington 700 ADL three years ago and have been VERY pleased w/ it. When I do my part, it does its part. Two deer dropped in their tracks at 150-200 yards. Last year I had to track, but that's because I misjudged wind and range.
 
PNW rifle

Go with the Ruger stainless, I am not sure if you have a Bi-Mart near you but in Eugene they are selling them for 459 and change and I have never heard anyone bad mouth a Ruger. They are a workhorse rifle and capable of some really good accuracy when they are fed what they want. BTW avoid the Federal Premium 140 bear claw load, as no one I know has been able to shoot them into a group less than 2 inches out of their Rugers. And as far as recoil goes the 270 with 140's ranks about 20-25 ft-lbs of recoil as a 30-06 with 180's comes in at like 28ft-lbs.
 
WHITEY338 said:
Go with the Ruger stainless, I am not sure if you have a Bi-Mart near you but in Eugene they are selling them for 459 and change and I have never heard anyone bad mouth a Ruger.
Click to expand...
This is very interesting.

I am very suprised to learn that the .270 recoil is greater than a .308.

A while back, I'd almost decided on .308 due to ammo availability, given that it's the same (or nearly so) as 7.62 NATO, etc.

But I expected its recoil to be up there with .30-06.

So, I looked at what other caliber had a good range of options and reasonable availability (thinking ahead to SHTF situations). .270 seemed just the ticket.

Now, you guys are telling me the .308 has lower recoil, and will do as well for deer, including larger mulies & lopes.

I'm not afraid of recoil, but want to be able to comfortably shoot it multiple times per range visit (don't get there often enough), and lower recoil facilitates that, makes practice more pleasant and something to look forward to. I don't think I'd feel that way about an '06. (Even if we are coming up on its 100 year aniversary.)

Indeed, one of the only bolts on my list that shoots the .308 is that Ruger.

Hmm.

Life is interesting...and surprising.

I'll check one out at BiMart.

Please, continue my education. More opinions welcomed.

Nem
 
Nematocyst-870 said:
Indeed, one of the only bolts on my list that shoots the .308 is that Ruger.
Click to expand...
Oh, no wait... I was wrong.

The Savage is available in both the .308 Win AND the 7mm.

Point taken about its increased recoil as a function of its weight however: 6.5 lbs.

Hmm. What's a guy to do?

Nem
 
#1: You have done an exellent job of analyzing your caliber needs. The .270 is a fine choice, a fine round and very appropriate for the applications you have listed. Don't worry about the recoil as it will not be a concern at all in a well fitting gun. (Noticing that you WILL do the 'pick it up and see what feels best' test later.)

#2: You have also done a fine job of narrowing down your field of choice. Please be sure to do the above mentioned test, but my favorites would be Ruger, Remington, Tika then the Savage.

Good luck in your choice and have fun with it!
 
Everyone, thanks much for the continued feedback. I'm learning a lot.

Phantom, you're right about the Remington 700: it is available in 7mm even if not in .308. My oversight.

critter said:
The .270 is a fine choice, a fine round and very appropriate for the applications you have listed. Don't worry about the recoil as it will not be a concern at all in a well fitting gun.
Click to expand...
Critter, thanks for your comments & suggestions.

Yes, I take your point about the HUGE importance of gun fit in reducing recoil. I also acknowledge Ready's suggestion for a butt pad (one reason I like the Remington with that R3 pad) and heavier clothing (even though that tends to alter shouldering fit).

However, despite your kind reassurance, I hope you'll forgive me if I stay with my concern about the recoil for a while longer. I'm a thin guy (5'11, ~135 lb). I also have some concerns about retinal detachment (retinal issues run in my family, and I'm getting older; there is already some retinal detachment, so my opthamologist tells me, even if so far it's 'normal' for my age). Plus, I want to be able to shoot 30-50 rnds at the range for practice and not have my brains jarred out.

I'm not ruling the .270 out at all yet, but in light of what I've been reading here and elsewhere, I'm also now going to broaden my consideration to the 7mm & maybe the .308. I want to stay with a caliber for which there is a good range of bullet options, & is reasonably available, that will still have the power to knock down those larger mulies and take whitetails with grace.

{Too bad I can't edit the title of this thread to reflect that expanded goal.}

All comments welcome about those calibers - 7mm, .308, .270 - relative to the concerns I've listed above.

Muchas gracias. :)

Nem
 
270 Recoil

Felt recoil depends not only on the caliber but also on such things as the total weight of the gun, design of the recoil pad, etc. Since I have an Encore with both 308 Winchester and 270 Winchester barrels, I've shot both calibers on the same gun and IMHO, the recoil of the 270 Winchester lower than the 308. The 270 barrel is a sporter barrel without scope as opposed to the 308 which has a heavy barrel with a scope.

If you don't like recoil, there are a bunch of high velocity cartridges with less recoil than the 270 that with the right bullet would take any game animal in North America with the execption of the great bears but the 270 is a classic and a good one.
 
Don't rule out the .270 yet. I have a 1" piece of stainless steel screw broken off in my right shoulder from a botched surgical repair, so I am somewhat recoil sensitive. I shoot a Remington 700 ADL in .270 without any discomfort at all. 7mm Mags hurt me, and I recently shot a Savage in .308 that was an absolute recoil monster (very light rifle, heavy bullets, shooting off the bench.) If a bolt gun is what you want, just be sure to get one of adequate weight, with a good recoil pad (the kick-eez from Brownells is great) and gravitate toward lighter bullets (130 grainers or so.) Shooting offhand is generally less painful than from a bench, and keep in mind that you almost never notice recoil when you're shooting at "critters." Adrenaline is a wonderful thing. Good luck.
 
i have a remmie 700 adl in 270 and i swear by it. shoots great, and is very managable in recoil. i would say definatly less then an 06, but the 06 rounds i shoot are usually 180 grainers, and i usually throw 130grainers through the 270. im pretty sure the 270 is based off the 30-06, so they do have some similarities. *they use the same shell plate if you reload* and is a pretty versitale cartridge.

i think i got mine in a combo package when i was 16 or 17 so about 4 or 5 years ago

came with a simmons 3-9 40mm scope and sling. i think just a touch of 4 bills. or 4 flat. not sure as it was a present.

just my 2 cents on the matter.
 
Of the four you posted, I suggest the Tikka, but you can't go wrong with Savage, from what I hear.

Don't overlook CZ, or Howa. The Howa M1500 is essentially a Weatherby Vanguard, so it is cheap, accurate, and kinda pretty with certain options.

As for caliber, don't overlook the "small .308" family, (.243 and .260)
 
grover13 said:
Don't rule out the .270 yet. I have a 1" piece of stainless steel screw broken off in my right shoulder from a botched surgical repair, so I am somewhat recoil sensitive.
Click to expand...
Ouch. Wow, my sympathies. I wish you the best with your shoulder.

Thanks for your opinion, and welcome to THR, Grover13! (I see that's your first post.) Newbies buy the rounds. Hmmm. Blue Moon Wheat Ale for me, please. ;)
_____

Well, I gotta say, you folks aren't making this an easy choice. So many options, so many opinions. :uhoh:

But options are better than no options, and it's going to be fun to sort them all out.

Grayrock, those Hornady's are interesting. I could gravitate over to a levergun, but right now, I seem to have my sights set on a bolt. We'll see, though.

Tricky & Grover, good point about lighter bullets.

If I go with 7mm, it'll be 7mm-08, not magnum. Also, NoBrakes, I'm probably going to rule out the .243 because I think it's a little light (for me) for mulies, and I'm not inclined to go .260 because my impression is that the choices for loads & availability are not as good as for 7, .270 & .308. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Please continue....

Nem
 
All things being equal, the 7mm/08 would be better than the .270. But, in the "real world" you will find a better selection of bullets in .270 than any other caliber, except .30-06.

From the Winchester website:

S270CT 270 Winchester 140 gr. Supreme® AccuBond™ CT®
S270X 270 Winchester 140 gr. Supreme® Fail Safe®
SBST270 270 Winchester 130 gr. Supreme® Ballistic Silvertip®
SXP270W 270 Winchester 150 gr. Supreme Elite™ XP3™
X2703 270 Winchester 130 gr. Super-X® Silvertip®
X2704 270 Winchester 150 gr. Super-X® Power-Point®
X2705 270 Winchester 130 gr. Super-X® Power-Point®

That selection should handle every game animal in the lower 48, except for Grizzly bear and elk. I know at least one man who swears by the 130 gr. Power-point for everything he shoots, deer, pig and an occasional bear.

Geoff
Who suggests a good reloader and practice, practice, practice.
 
Jeff Timm said:
All things being equal, the 7mm/08 would be better than the .270.
Click to expand...
Jeff, thanks for your advice. The ammo listing for the 270 is useful.

Would you mind explaining what you mean by that particular sentence? Do you mean "better" in terms of recoil, or other things as well?

Thanks,

Nem
 
I was not going to chime in, because it appeared you were set on the .270.

The .270 is great for long shots on antelope in flat terrain, but I suspect for your neighborhood most any caliber will do.

Of all the medium rifle calibers out there the .308 is my personal favorite. I have put quite a few of those down range, it is very pleasant to shoot, and at typical hunting ranges compensation for drop is not difficult. This cartridge does well out to 500 yards, then it starts to run out of gas, with an increasing drop, until maxing out at about 800 yards for most combinations of rifle, ammo, and shooter. One of the most versatile cartridges out there.

Regardless of the brand you choose you can have a different recoil pad or even a different stock, adjustable or cut to fit you, however you want it.

All those brands are good, my bolt gun is a Savage 10FP with the factory 20" barrel, but I suspect you would want a much lighter barrel than that, look at lightweight models.

If you want iron sights it will be easier to get them from the factory, and they are not available on all models, so this may be a concern. Also, it is possible to purchase Picatinny rails that fit on the receiver in place of typical scope bases, allowing you more versatility in what you mount on top. Even with standard bases you can get throw lever rings, Leupold makes very nice ones.

With the incredible variety of bolt guns out there you will find all sorts of features right from the factory, all you have to do is decide what you want.
 
Nematocyst-870 said:
Jeff, thanks for your advice.
Would you mind explaining what you mean by that particular sentence? Do you mean "better" in terms of recoil, or other things as well?
Nem
Click to expand...

If you take similar rifles in 7mm 08, .270, .30-06, .308 Winchester and load them with 150 gr or 140 gr bullets, I doubt anyone can tell the difference just by recoil.

The .308 case is slightly heavier in the head with a thicker rim, for better functioning in automatic and semi auto weapons. The .308 was designed to duplicate the ballistics of the 150 gr .30-06 and to eliminate unnecessary space in the case improved powders did not need.

Geoff
Who has a .308 Remington 700 BDL with a 4 x Leopold
 
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