*-.270 match grade ammo?-*

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wdallis

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Just curious if any one has used the Sierra matching boat tail bullets in a 1-10" twist barrel, and if so what was the recipe that you used. I am shooting a savage 110 in a .270 with a 1-10" twist. Also, has any one used these for taking down deer with positive results?
 

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What weight SMK, 115 or 135 grain?

Which .270, Winchester, Weatherby or WSM?

The pic you posted looks more like the 115, I've never loaded them in .270 Winchester.

With their short ogive and low B.C. I always figured them for more of a 6.8 SPC bullet.

The 135's I loaded for a friend's Tikka in .270 Winchester were very accurate out to 600 yards.

I wouldn't use SMK's for deer hunting. Sierra advises against using them for that purpose. I have no doubt that there are plenty of people that will say what a wonderful hunting bullet they are, but when the company that makes and sells them says that they're unsuitable for hunting, my instinct is to believe them.
 
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The Sierra MatchKing bullets are not for hunting. Sierra themselves warns against it. That is a match bullet that is not designed to expand. It will pass through an animal and cause many hours or days of pain and suffering unless you get lucky and hit something important.

I shoot a 30-06 and I practice with a 168gr MatchKing bullet and for hunting deer switch to a 165gr GameKing bullet. I can use the same powder charge and no adjustment to the scope is necessary.

For hunting ammo in your .270 Win you should use the Sierra 130gr Pro Hunter or either of the two 140gr GameKing bullets they offer.

If you want a match grade bullet you can also use for hunting Hornady has their ELD-X bullet. They sell a .277" 145gr bullet that will fill your needs even though it's slightly heavier than 135gr. Be careful not to buy their ELD-Match bullet. http://m.hornady.com/store/270-cal-277-145-gr-ELDX/

Good luck.
 
The Nosler 130 gr Accubond is a very good bullet for deer that shoots really well .... it is not "Match Grade" on the box ....but it will deliver match grade accuracy with the right load....
 
Interestingly:

1. It's considered acceptable to load a muzzle loader with projectiles that don't expand.

2. You are required to use nonexpanding bullets when hunting the largest land animal and their use is acceptable for other large dangerous animals.

3. Arrows don't expand.

4. Snipers of our the U. S. military shoot Sierra MatchKings. Of course it will be trotted out that the snipers don't want to kill people; just wound them. Yea, right.

5. Berger bullets, which have similar construction to Sierra MatchKings, are promoted for hunting. I used them before the distinction was made between target Bergers and hunting Bergers and they worked quite well.

i19zsi202.jpg

The exit wound made with a nonexpanding Berger VLD bullet.
 
Just took a buck with my Ruger 77 .270, using a 130gr Hornady SST bullet pushed by 55gr of H4831. Shot through the heart at 156 yds. moving, dead when he hit the ground, went 15ft.
 
1. Most states have a minimum legal caliber for muzzle loader hunting (e.g. .45 cal). Wider projectile + soft lead construction = larger amount of tissue damage.

2. I believe most folks try to shoot elephants in the head where penetration through bone trumps expansion and wound channel, a different hunting method than what any .270 will likely be used for.

3. Many popular mechanical arrow heads do expand.... Even the fixed blade broadheads I use have a 1" cutting diameter. A field tip would be analogous to a non-expanding bullet, and it is usually illegal to hunt medium game with field tips.

4. Hague Convention. OTM bullets are used because of their accuracy and higher BC's, not any increased wounding potential.

5. Berger advertises many of their bullets as hunting bullets and purportedly redesigned them to make them structurally softer and more likely to open or fracture. Sierra, on the other hand specifically advises people not to hunt with their MatchKings...

With so many excellent, accurate .277 hunting bullets available, why would anyone choose a substandard match bullet to hunt medium game with.... against the manufacturer's advice, to boot?
 
The Sierra 115gr was produced to fill the need for a match competition bullet in the 6.8 SPC. I tried them in my .270 Win with a 1-10" twist with very good results. (As always, work-up to this load.)
35knybs.jpg
 
"...the recipe that you used..." No match bullets for deer aside, you must work up the load for your rifle. What shoots well out of one rifle will not necessarily shoot well out of another. Even 2 identical, consecutively numbers rifles will shoot the same ammo differently.
"...a muzzle loader with projectiles that don't expand..." Like what? A musket ball is soft lead. Goes entirely flat upon impact with something solid like a bone.
"...You are required to use nonexpanding bullets when..." Says who? Solids are used for elephants and buffalo, etc for their penetration, not about expanding.
"...Arrows don't expand..." Arrows don't kill by shock. Arrows kill by causing blood loss.
"...Snipers of our the U. S. military shoot Sierra MatchKings..." Ain't the same thing. Snipers shoot for accuracy at extremely long distances and are prohibited from using expanding bullets by international law.
 
The problem with using the MatchKings on game is that it's a mixed bag.
At close range, you'll see some spectacular expansion and possibly some not immediately lethal wounding (there goes that shot placement thing, AGAIN). Perhaps 100yds and closer, depending on caliber/cartridge/velocity/bullet weight.

However, at 200+ yards, the bullet has decelerated, and stabilized and likely will not expand at all unless heavy bone is hit. Because of this inconsistency in terminal performance, they aren't recommended.
The Berger VLD "Hunting", though similar, is a totally different animal.
Due to length of the bullet, and very large air cavity in the nose that collapses on impact, and subsequent jacket rupturing, they perform somewhat differently than the MatchKings. They also "tumble, causing the jacket to rupture. I've used them in .224"(70gr), and .257 (.257Roberts .257WbyMag) and they performed as advertised. Very destructive, with gaping exit wounds on smallish deer (100-150lbs). But! I knew to take heart-lung shots and possibly discard the shoulders. Again; shot placement, shot placement, shot placement...
Likewise, the Hornady A-Max are recommended by Hornady in "SOME" instances as an acceptable hunting bullet. I've got some .264" 123gr Amax loaded for my .260 to see how they do. I'm looking for expansion at 400-600yds as I do some deer control on area airports.
Aren't laser rangefinders amazing thing!
 
Most states have a minimum legal caliber for muzzle loader hunting (e.g. .45 cal). Wider projectile + soft lead construction = larger amount of tissue damage.

The fact remains, they don't expand.

I believe most folks try to shoot elephants in the head where penetration through bone trumps expansion and wound channel, a different hunting method than what any .270 will likely be used for.

That's what you see on TV. A just as sure thing; maybe even better is a heart lung shot. Also consider that solids used to be used exclusively for Cape Buffalo and Rhino. It wasn't until the advent of better bullets that the first shot on the latter two was with a soft and, guess what, if needed follow-up shots are taken with solids. In addition, there is no rule that you can't take a head shot on a deer.

Many popular mechanical arrow heads do expand.... Even the fixed blade broadheads I use have a 1" cutting diameter. A field tip would be analogous to a non-expanding bullet, and it is usually illegal to hunt medium game with field tips.

As you noted, "many" and not all mechinal arrow heads expand and those are a relatively recent addition to the bow hunter's armamentarium. And "cutting diameter" is a little misleading since a 1 inch in circumferance wound is not made but merely 2 to 4 cuts depending on the broadhead used.

Hague Convention. OTM bullets are used because of their accuracy and higher BC's, not any increased wounding potential.

That's true bue they're still effective and there are some hunters that put a lot of value in a very accurate bullet to be used at long range.

Berger advertises many of their bullets as hunting bullets and purportedly redesigned them to make them structurally softer and more likely to open or fracture. Sierra, on the other hand specifically advises people not to hunt with their MatchKings...

With so many excellent, accurate .277 hunting bullets available, why would anyone choose a substandard match bullet to hunt medium game with.... against the manufacturer's advice, to boot?

I've come to have a bit of skepticism regarding a lot of what manufactures say. Maybe they don't outright lie but some of what they say isn't true. That said, what I've used to take several deer with in one of my 270s, pretty much DRT, was the lowly Remington Core-Lokt which, against all odds, gave me excellent accuracy in that particular rifle. Where you hit a deer is probably more important that what you hit it with.
 
I have also effectively used the Core-Lokt in 270 and various .308 firearms with great results at 200 YDS or less. Paying more does not assure better results every time. Various brand cup and core bullets have taken a lot of game for 90+ years or so now. The new comers have several good products but I doubt they are always 3X as good for 3X the cost most times.;) YMMV
 
The fact remains, they don't expand.

That's what you see on TV. A just as sure thing; maybe even better is a heart lung shot. Also consider that solids used to be used exclusively for Cape Buffalo and Rhino. It wasn't until the advent of better bullets that the first shot on the latter two was with a soft and, guess what, if needed follow-up shots are taken with solids. In addition, there is no rule that you can't take a head shot on a deer.

As you noted, "many" and not all mechinal arrow heads expand and those are a relatively recent addition to the bow hunter's armamentarium. And "cutting diameter" is a little misleading since a 1 inch in circumferance wound is not made but merely 2 to 4 cuts depending on the broadhead used.

That's true bue they're still effective and there are some hunters that put a lot of value in a very accurate bullet to be used at long range.

I've come to have a bit of skepticism regarding a lot of what manufactures say. Maybe they don't outright lie but some of what they say isn't true. That said, what I've used to take several deer with in one of my 270s, pretty much DRT, was the lowly Remington Core-Lokt which, against all odds, gave me excellent accuracy in that particular rifle. Where you hit a deer is probably more important that what you hit it with.
Why would you be skeptical about Sierra's claim that the MatchKing isn't a good hunting bullet? What do they have to gain by lying?

Can you please explain to me why the effectivness of a Remington Core Loct (a pure hunting bullet) has anything to do with the effectiveness of the Sierra MatchKing (a pure target bullet) on game?

Have you ever heard of W.M.D. Bell?
I seem to recall that he made the odd head shot or two on elephant using solids...
 
Some of the reasons I'm skepitical:

j19ud-213.jpg

Taken with a Nosler 168 gr. BTHP match bullet.

i3zo190.jpg

What a 180 gr. Sierra MatchKing does to a ground hog.

h29zo28.jpg

Taken with a 115 gr. Berger VLD. This isn't the only deer I've taken with VLDs.

i19zsi200.jpg

One of 4 pronghorns taken with a 168 gr. Berger VLD.

Just to be clear, I didn't say bullet manufacturers necessarily lie but that some of the things they said weren't true. Why; I'm not really sure. Perhaps they never tried it and are relateing myth, lore and legend. Maybe it's so they can make more money selling pretty "expanding" bullets.

The performance of a Remington Core-Lokt has nothing to do with match bullets. I merely related that I use them since for me in that rifle accuracy has been excellent. If accuracy hadn't been excellent, I might have ended up using a match bullet instead.

And Karamojo Bell? Yes, I have heard of him. Funny thing; he used solids and not really even big bore solids at that. Have you ever read the story by Peter Hathaway Capstick about the two elephants taken with the lowly 22 LR? So, as I said, solids are used on the biggest and most dangerous land animals and hunters agonize over whether a bullets expands, comes apart, stays together, leaves a good blood trail or doesn't exit. My feeling is that where a bullet is placed is the most important and that dead is dead.

Perhaps you've heard of Steve Ricciardelli the now deceased internet publisher of "Steves Pages." Some here may remember him; he's not famous in all circles. His deer bullets were match bullets; Sierras as I recall.
 
The fact remains, they don't expand.

Soft round balls do tend to expand into a flat disc... thereby creating a larger wound channel, which is the whole point of mandating a minimum bullet diameter. What portion of muzzle loader hunting projectiles do you think are totally non-expanding? I think very very few, the vast majority of muzzle loader projectiles sold for hunting are built for expansion. Why do you think this is? Are all these bullet manufacturers, like Sierra, in the dark about what kind of projectile leads to the most predictable and reliable kills?

That's what you see on TV. A just as sure thing; maybe even better is a heart lung shot. Also consider that solids used to be used exclusively for Cape Buffalo and Rhino. It wasn't until the advent of better bullets that the first shot on the latter two was with a soft and, guess what, if needed follow-up shots are taken with solids. In addition, there is no rule that you can't take a head shot on a deer.

Yeah, that's what I read and see on tv, that when hunters are hunting Elephant and Rhino and Cape Buffalo with solids, they are aiming to break bone, often in the case of elephant they are aiming for the head. What is your experience Elephant hunting? Where do you usually shoot Elephant and Rhino? You mention that folks used to use solids exclusively to hunt Buffalo and Rhino, were they using .277" solids, or where they using the largest bores they could feasibly handle? Why do you think they used larger bores ( back to making bigger holes)...

That's true bue they're still effective and there are some hunters that put a lot of value in a very accurate bullet to be used at long range.

They can be effective, but they can also be erratic and unreliable, which is exactly why Sierra doesn't recommend them for hunting. In hunting, both placement and reliable bullet performance are key... to pursue one at the full expense of the other is folly. Those hunters should use the 145 gr ELDx, or the 140 gr Accubond, or one of the SST's as previously stated, instead of using a 135 SMK with unreliable wounding characteristics, they can use purpose built hunting bullets with comparable or higher BC's. If you can't find a decent load with one of the excellent, slick bullets manufactured today, there is probably something amiss with your rifle... This has held true with all my hunting rigs, if they won't shoot one of the main hunting bullets (SGK, SST, Accubond, BT, Hornady spbt, etc.) well, they need some kind of work, and a match bullet isn't going to change that. There is a lot of talk about long range hunting, but the truth is that there are very, very, very few situations where it is necessary to take a shot over 350 yds on a game animal. There are even fewer people who have put in the time at the range practicing in field positions to be able to reliably take the 500 yd, 600 yd, or 700 yd shot. Those people do not come on to an internet forum and ask what bullet they should use for their hunting stunts.

I'll repeat, there is absolutely no reason to use an inappropriate bullet for hunting when there are so many good, purpose built hunting bullets available. Life is all about trade offs, but don't trade something for nothing.

Just to be clear, I didn't say bullet manufacturers necessarily lie but that some of the things they said weren't true. Why; I'm not really sure. Perhaps they never tried it and are relateing myth, lore and legend. Maybe it's so they can make more money selling pretty "expanding" bullets.

My favorite type of conspiracy theory, one that lacks even a basic motive. I don't think Sierra is lying to us about the use of SMK's in hunting, for profit because, wait for it,.... SMK's are more expensive than the SBTs that they do recommend. So nefarious motives are out the window because Sierra is giving up a little extra cash with every box of SBTs hunters buy over SMKs... the only explanation left must be that Sierra is totally in the dark about the construction and capabilities of the bullets that they have been making for 50 years... Really? Isn't there a simpler explanation, that sierra knows exactly what they are talking about and you don't? So you've blown up a few ground hogs and knocked over a few deer, do you really think that your knowledge of the construction, capabilities, and hunting reliability of the SMK holds a candle to that of the company and people that designed them and have been making and shooting them for decades?

Here's an interesting article on the subject.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_matchbullets_200909/
 
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Now soft lead balls expand? Really?

And Bell used nonexpanding bullets in his 275 Rigby (a.k.a., 7x57 Mauser) which would have a diameter of .284 inches; that's a whole 7 thousandths of an inch larger than the bullet of a 270 Winchester.
 
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