.276 Pedersen Garand Reincarnate?

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amprecon

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It's funny how things just come together sometimes, just out of the blue. I'm sure most of you know the history of the M1 Garand, that it was initially built smaller and designed around the .276 Pedersen cartridge using 10-round en-bloc clips. I understand there are only a very few of these rifles around and probably in a museum somewhere. Either way, the .276 Pedersen was a very inovative and promising cartridge and as I understand it the military testers regarded it quite highly and seemed enthusiastic about its performance. However, as things would have it, it was dropped in favor of the much more available .30-06 cartridge.
Incidentally, the Brits designed their .280 British round during the end of WWII as their most effective, efficient "battle" cartridge from lessons learned during their experiences, it hauntingly closely duplicates the .276 Pedersen cartridge.
My curiousity about this subject was sparked when I learned of the 6.8spc cartridge and its development and purpose. I found that the 6.8spc comes really close to what the .276 Pedersen and .280 British rounds offered, but because of the new developments in powder chemistry, is able to provide more power with less powder, hence the shorter case length.
As I learned about the .276 Pedersen and .280 British rounds I came to realize that for their intended purposes, combat, they were close to ideal, providing good accuracy, energy and terminal performance without the stout recoil and its reduced size which allowed for smaller weapons and more ammo being carried.
I began searching for the various rifles that chambered the 6.8spc and practically all were mostly of the ubiquitous AR designs. As I don't like the direct impingement design my options were vastly narrowed down to the few piston driven AR designs such as the LWRC and Robinson Arms XCR, then there are the piston refit kits for standard AR's.
I saw that Ruger came out with their Mini in 6.8spc and didn't think much of it because of their prominent history of so-so accuracy. But again, as I've been learning, their new Mini's have been improved in the accuracy department and have made them appealing again.
As I looked at it, I realized that it uses the Garand style rotating bolt design and is basically a "mini" garand and in the 6.8spc caliber, which is close in performance to what the .276 Pedersen was. Have we re-discovered the .276 Pedersen Garand that was lost to time and the need for ammunition commonality requirements of the time?
I'm thinking so and am starting to realize this new Ruger Mini-14 in 6.8spc may be the diamond in the ruff. For those that prefer the classic Garand style and propensity for reliability and simplicity, this new Mini may be on my shortlist for a true do-it-all utility rifle, what the Garand was supposed to be.
 
Interesting way of looking at the 6.8 Mini. 6.8SPC is definitely a great cartridge for combat sort of shooting, and does owe something, at least indirectly, to 276 Pedersen and the British 280/7mm round.

Now if someone will just come out with a bullpup conversion kit for the 6.8 Mini that matches the layout and looks of the EM-2 I'll be writing a check to Ruger . . .
 
It's all fine but the .276 cartridge designed for the Garand rifle during development was not the .276 cartridge that John Pedersen's design used.

The ordnance dept. had ordered that any semi-auto rifle under consideration be 'near .30 caliber but no less than .276 caliber'.

John Garand submitted his first model rifle to the Ordnance Department in Oct. 1921 that used a specially designed .276 caliber cartridge to operate his primer actuated action.
John Pedersen submitted his first model rifle for testing in May, 1926.

Did you want to incorporate the 'lubed cartridge' requirement of the Pedersen rifle in your new Ruger?
 
John Garand submitted his first model rifle to the Ordnance Department in Oct. 1921 that used a specially designed .276 caliber cartridge to operate his primer actuated action.

Hatcher illustrates the 1920 and 1921 primer actuated Garands.
He says the first "...used the service .30 caliber cartridge"
and the second was "...primer actuated .30 caliber model produced at Springfield Armory in 1921."
Also "When the gun was fired, the primer was allowed to move back about .035 inch, and this motion, transmitted through the firing pin to the actuator, operated the gun."

The Springfield Armory site says:
"Garand's Model 1921 SPAR7013 in .30" caliber, was the third rifle he created and was similarly primer-actuated."

Is there a conflicting source of information that has him using a different round?

There was another primer actuated rifle - European, I think - that used special cases with deep primer pockets so the primer and firing pin had a longer travel to cycle the action, but not the Garands.


I don't think the OP wants to use the waxed Pedersen ammo or even the .276 round itself. He just thinks the 6.8x43 is a reasonable approximation that is currently available.
 
Have we re-discovered the .276 Pedersen Garand that was lost to time and the need for ammunition commonality requirements of the time?

I don't think we rediscovered the Pedersen rifle, we have realized the benefit of the round it used.

Didn't the pedersen use a toggle-joint action? The only connection to the Pedersen I see is that the new mini uses a similar round, and fortunately one that doesn't need any lube.
 
Did you want to incorporate the 'lubed cartridge' requirement of the Pedersen rifle in your new Ruger?

+1 what has already been said. That issue was with the Pedersen rifle design, not the cartridge. In the Garands chambered for the same round there wasn't a need to specially lubricate the cartridges.
 
I think the OP should buy the Mini in 6.8 an do a massive amount of shooting, then report back to us how it shoots.....so get crack'in amprecon...we're waiting!!!!
 
The Mini-14 is an adaption of the M14's gas system, not the M1 Garand's.

So technically, no, it is not the "new" Garand. That, and my Garand will/has outshot every Mini I've ever encountered on the range. So, until Ruger fixes up the accuracy a bit, and the 6.8 becomes a bit less odd-duck to anyone outside of the internet, then I think I'll stick with my current crop of rifles.

Though, I do have to give the OP credit for thinking of things in the way he did; very original. Try it, let us know what you think.
 
If I was as infatuated with the 6.8 as you are, I'd just build one with a gas piston AR-15. No Mini-14's for me...thanks.
 
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