.280 REM for Elk?

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Yes the .270win was Jack's baby which he consistantly took big elk,mountain sheep as well as Arizona pronghorn("capable of" translates to "up to the task"). A person well read in Jack O'Connor knows however that he had a greater respect for the 7x57 Mauser. It seems to me that a .280 Rem can be considered a suped up 7x57 and up to the task. Eleanor O'Connor used the 7x57 to great effect on African safari,taking Eland which exceed 1000 lbs. I personally have no elk hunting experience so this is worth what it cost you.
 
Not only is it enough, to my way of thinking, it's about perfect. But then again, I have no credentials on the subject, so don't listen to me. But do listen to rcmodel and Jim Watson who say the same thing. :p But then again see contra with ArmedBear & H&H Hunter, who are both very learned and wise. :)

I suppose if you want a dedicated elk/moose/caribou caliber, you'd probably be better off with a .35 Whelen, .350 Remmag, 9.3x62mm, .338 win mag, .338-06 A-square, .325 WSM, .333 OKH etc., or even an 8mm mauser, .30-'06, .444 marlin, .45-70 gov't, .358 Win, .348 Win, or .35 Rem.

But .280 and .270 which are virtually identical to each other, are only a scrunthair away from the .30-06. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to use it even if knowing I'd be shooting at the bull of a lifetime at 300 yards, *assuming* that it's the gun I was most comfortable with and the best shot with!

Also keep in mind that the .280 (aka 7mm Rem Express), like the 6.5x55 and 7x57, is "dumbed down" a bit in factory loadings for semi-autos that they were originally chambered in, so if loaded to its capabilities, can meet and exceed the .270 win performance (albeit just a small amount). With the better BCs of 7mm bullets than either .270 or .30-06, it's arguably a better long-range choice than either of them, espec. with the heavier 175 gr bullet family. The .280 is a 7mm remmag on a small diet. When loaded to it's capabilities (handloads), it can do 93% of what the remmag can do ballistically, and 98.6% of what it can do for all intents and purposes in reality. The 7mm remmag is considered by many to be a good elk round. And I cannot imagine that anyone, game or hunter, could be able to tell the difference between a 175 gr .284 bullet from a .280 rem and a 180 gr .308 bullet from a .30-'06 (the most commonly preferred elk round bullet weight in .30-06), travelling within 75 fps of one another at the muzzle. That's less than 3/100ths of an inch in bullet diameter, and only 5 grains of weight, in the exact same case. To my mind, the .280 rem *IS*, in essence, a ".30-'06, but with better bullet BCs".

FWIW, I've recently decided that I'm narrowing my caliber/rifle collection to just four for large game, not counting muzzleloader (with only two "brass families", you'll note):

1. .243 Win [6mm], for deer/sheep/antelope/goat sized stuff, at long ranges (a Western/Mountain/Desert/Beanfield rifle) (24" turnbolt, with 80-85 gr loadings)
2. .260 Rem [6.5mm], as an all-purpose round, for essentially all game at all short & medium ranges, mostly for whitetail deer, hogs, & self-defense (18" semi-auto, with 129 Hornady SSTs)
3. .280 Rem [7mm], for larger game (a Canada/Alaska/Elk/Moose/Caribou rifle, & African plains game rifle)(22" turnbolt, undecided on load as of yet)
4. 9.3x62mm [9.3mm], for smaller dangerous game (brown bears, lion, leopard, croc, warthog, etc.) and large African plains & North American game (giant eland, yak, bison)(20" turnbolt, undecided on load as of yet)

Wait a sec - I may be full of it - is the 9.3x62 based on .30-06 or am I smokin the ganja weed here? Regardless, it's the same basic sized case as .30-06/.270/.280/.35 Whelen.

If I ever actually make it to Africa with a buff/ele/hippo tag, then I'll buy or borrow another dedicated rifle, probably in .416 Rigby or .458 Lott.

This simplification setup allows me to eliminate many others I own or have owned, including .45-70, .270, .30-06, .25-'06, 6.5x55, 7mm remmag, .300 winmag, and others.
 
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I never suggested a .280 won't work on elk.:)

I was responding to a question about whether it is a "terrific elk cartridge that would be good for all the shots out to 300 yards on trophy-sized bulls."

terrific = round allows for a decent margin of error
all the shots = round allows for a HUGE margin of error
300 yards (ditto)
trophy-sized bulls = BIG animals that have been known to run off and go for a long distance in impassable terrain after they've been shot "perfectly"

The OP is in Georgia. He's not just looking to hunt in his backyard, and if he doesn't get an easy shot, just go home and have a beer, like someone here in Idaho. He's not going to draw a cow tag. I presume he wants to bring home his big bull elk, if he sees it.

He's looking to BUY a rifle, not asking if his existing favorite gun could work for a hunt.

These are all important variables.

To say that a .280 isn't a terrific elk rifle, good for all shots to 300 yards on a trophy-sized bull is NOT to say that you can't hunt elk with a .280. These are two different questions, plain and simple.:)
 
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To stay on thread, load that .280 with a 160 Nosler Partition or similar controlled expansion type bullet and it will work great on Elk.

Wow...did not know so many states in the Southeast had Elk herds. We have a few high fence operations here in Texas for Elk and some "renegade" Elk in the Texas Panhandle, but hunting free ranging Elk a few hours from DFW would be pretty sweet :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
IMHO the 280 is a fine elk gun as long as the shooter is comfy with it, same idea goes with all then "new and improved" big guns that are out there. I jumped ship from 270 to 280 and never looked back. The reloading horizon is much bigger with the 7mm bullets.
 
Leon, there are 3 freerange herds in Okla., one large and two small. Actually there are more than that, but only 3 freerange are on huntable public land (by lottery tag only). The other free range elk are adjacent to the one large herd in SW OK, and are on various private lands, where the landowners rake you pretty good to hunt them. I call these different herds in theory because the large herd is inside a military installation and wildlife preserve, both of which are high fenced. BUT, there are holes in the fences, which is how they got out in the first place, so maybe you *could* call it one large "herd".


The 3 herds on public lands are huntable by controlled hunt lottery only. On the two small herds in eastern OK, there is only ONE BULL tag issued for each. On the large herd in SW, there are a "lot" of tags - something like 100 bull and 25 cow per year IIRC; most are filled, too.

AB, whew! :)
 
errr... uhmmm the .280 Rem far outperforms the .270 Win... matter of fact, it will out perform the venerable 30-06 Sprg... Go look at ballistics tables...

Schleprok62,

Please define "far outperforms" for me. I am not talking paper ballistics but real life in the field performance on elk sized critters. There ain't a hill of beans difference between a .280 a .270 and a 7MM mag when it comes to poking elk. To see a real life difference in killing performance at any range you really need to step up to larger caliber with a heavier bullet at adequate velocity.

With that being said I am NOT implicating that any of the above mentioned calibers will not kill any elk that ever walked with decent bullets and within it's design capabilities.

My experience in the field tells me that an 06 is just as good if not a better round on elk than a 7MM though the paper ballistics would tell us otherwise.

When you step up to the .338 there is a noticeable difference in hit and the ability to take shot angels you dream of with an 06 or a 7MM or a .280. The shot angle thing is the primary advantage of a heavier stouter caliber on elk.

This really comes into play when you are hunting elk the way I prefer to in thick cover where your shots are real likely to be a snap shot. In fact thinking about it the last 8 elk that I've killed have been rear quartering snap shots on running elk at close range and I've yet to lose one wounded in this scenario. I won't play that game with an 06 but I do it all the time with a .375H&H with 270 gr bullets. I definitely wouldn't do it with a .280 or a 7MM.
 
If I ever actually make it to Africa with a buff/ele/hippo tag, then I'll buy or borrow another dedicated rifle, probably in .416 Rigby or .458 Lott.

I've got a real nice custom .458 Lott for sale right now if you are serious about gearing up for Africa. It's never to early to start practicing.;)
 
I am in the same situation, except i sold my .30-06 and regret it. Of course, now i found a deal on a remington 700 sps .300WM for $300. What would you do? Buy the .300 for a great deal or spend more for a .30-06? I want to use it for deer and elk. Not trying to highjack the thread but i didn't see the need to start another thread about an elk/deer gun.

BTW, i have the same username on thefiringline.com and i have been there for a while. Just thought i would drop in here...
 
I don't know much about the .280, but if it is close to a 30-06, you will have all you need. My dad uses an '06 for everything from deer to elk and has never had bullets bounce off elk or any other critter. If you handload, even better. The magic is the shooter and taking the right shot - meaning don't shoot it through the front quarters or anything silly like that. Shot placement.

A little off topic - my brother dropped 2 elk this last year in MT as did my sister in law. (special season deal outside of Yellowstone park) My brother uses a 7mm mag and she used a good old '06. My brother loads his elk rounds with the Barnes solid copper bullets and swears by 'em. If you load for the .280, you may want to check them out.
 
That is what my gut is telling me. If this general opinon prevails than I will proabably go with a REM 700 CDL SF or M77 Stainless Hawkeye in 7mm REM MAG.

If you get another rifle I'd get a cartridge that is noticeably more powerful than the 280Rem. The 7mmRM and 280 Rem are very close in ballistics and terminal performance. I think you'd do just fine with the 280 and a good bullet like Nosler Partitions. If you handload, load em hot.

If you get a new rifle specifically for Elk I'd go with any of the 300mags or 338 mag. The 280 will kill an Elk just fine though.
 
Wow guys. Didn't expect the thread to grow this much. I'm grateful for the feedback and civility when disagreements arise.

Truth be told, I'm still shopping and looking. Appreciate the ballistic breakdowns from the 'professors' and the real world experience from the guys in the great NW. I do reload, and that was a reason I looked at the .280, not to mention the uniqueness.

Now what about rifles? There were some suggestions but I'm hoping for a little feedback on the platform. My choices are limited if I stay w/ a .280; but if I were to go 7mm RM, which of the following would you choose (maybe I should start a poll):
- REM 700 CDL SF
- Ruger M77 Hawkeye Stainless
- TC Icon Classic
- Browning BLR
 
Hawkeye or CDL. ICON's are HEAVY!!! BLR's aren't as practical as a bolt action IMO.

What the 7mmRM gains in powder capacity it lacks in efficiency. You won't notice the differnce on game. I've recently started having issues with sizing 7mmRM's just above the belt. With 280 you avoid a potential problem. That said 7mmRM is one of my favorite cartridges.
 
What the 7mmRM gains in powder capacity it lacks in efficiency. You won't notice the differnce on game. I've recently started having issues with sizing 7mmRM's just above the belt. With 280 you avoid a potential problem. That said 7mmRM is one of my favorite cartridges.

Never thought of that. Having never resized a belted magnum, I hadn't considered/thought of that.

I agree the ICON is a tad heavy, but boy what a sweet, beautifully finished rifle. Thanks.
 
I use a 30-06 on moose every year. Of course they are not the same as those carnivorous,thick skinned,fire breathing elk old Elmer used to hunt. [But a .44 special is OK?]
 
I agree the ICON is a tad heavy, but boy what a sweet, beautifully finished rifle.

I've shot next to a few at my club and they SHOOT too. Other than weight I'd have no complaints.

Kimber Montana would make an excellent lightweight elk rifle IMO. They're not much more than an ICON.
 
By the way, this thread needs to be moved to the Hunting forum, because it's about hunting.

Note: The Icon Classic is on the heavy side, but the Icon Original Medium Action is not heavy, and it is very sweet too.

What the 7mmRM gains in powder capacity it lacks in efficiency. You won't notice the differnce on game. I've recently started having issues with sizing 7mmRM's just above the belt. With 280 you avoid a potential problem.

Yep, I could never warm up to the 7mm Remmag - had two and sold them. The dreaded belt bulge, relative inefficiency, and high ammo cost being the main factors why.

If you shoot factory ammo, the .270 and .30-06 are ten times the better choice than the .280 (either one of them), but for availability and cost reasons, but if you handload, .280 is in the hizzouse.
 
I have never hunted Elk, but hey, I'm always ready with at least .02. If you are buying SPECIFICALLY for Elk, then buy a 7 remmag or 300 mag (Win, not Weatherby; Win has slightly less capacity but ammo is far more available), both are well suited for long range while delivering considerable thump, without being Africa overboard. If you are looking for a general duty rifle for Elk, deer & all lower 48 game, then the .30-06 would be my first choice just for the exceptionally broad bullet weight range available, as well as light magnum loads easily sufficient for Elk. Third in line would be any of the remaining .30-06 varients including the .35 whelen, .280r, .270 win. The only 06 variant I would pass on for Elk would be the 25.06, but I am sure someone has taken them cleanly with it.
 
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Now what about rifles? There were some suggestions but I'm hoping for a little feedback on the platform. My choices are limited if I stay w/ a .280; but if I were to go 7mm RM, which of the following would you choose (maybe I should start a poll):
- REM 700 CDL SF
- Ruger M77 Hawkeye Stainless
- TC Icon Classic
- Browning BLR

I own 2 model 70's (a 7mag & .270); my next rifle would be none of your options, nor would it be another model 70. I am ready for a Savage; specifically this one: (in .30-06; left hand)

They just flat shoot.
 

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Bull Elk at 300y..... your asking a lot of the .280.

Can it be done, yep....but, you could get hit on the head with a frozen duck falling from the sky the next time you go outside to get in the family sedan also.:eek:

I think big Elk at that range may be better shot with something of more authority.:D

...and you don't have the most excellent Savage 116/114 in your line up of perspective rifles, don't hinder yourself. hehehe

Savage 116 in .338 Winchester Mag., a good scope = many dead big bull elk... if you do your part!

:D
 
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A lot of good points are made in the replies to this post. The hunter choosing an elk cartridge/bullet combo always has to consider several factors seldom mentioned in the debate:

1. WIND. Western hunting almost always has wind coming into play. Try shooting 300 yards in a stiff wind and see how far the bullets stray.

2. RANGE. Indeed, in lots of western hunting locals, the distance you can see is absolutely incredible. It makes 300 yards look like nothing.

3. GEOGRAPHY. It is critical to consider what kind of geography surrounds you. Sure you can "kill" elk, even big ones, with respectable big game calibers. But how quickly? If a big bull covers half a mile with a terminal hit (which he can easily do), where does he end up? In some steep, nasty hole or canyon which darn near requires a helicopter to get him out.

You should consider these factors fully before choosing an elk caliber. And the debate goes on .......................
 
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