2nd. Saiga .12 guage as investment?

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A little clarification to our OP:

As an investment for financial reasons? No.

As a prudent back-up to a gun I already have? Absolutely.

ESPECIALLY if I was an individual that is very comfortable with AK variants. Keeps your manual of arms simple.
 
Saigas have gone up in price over a $100 to $200 in 6-mos! That's about a 70-100% annual increase.
 
The Saiga platform has seen more development and improvement in terms of combat shotguns in the last four years than the 870 and Benelli did in the 40 years before it. Hell, Tony Rumore has revolutionized the custom Saiga cottage industry and picked some serious believers along the way, to include FBI HRT and some SF units.

The Saiga loads faster, holds more, is easily and completely reconfigurable. It is based on an action of world-renowned reliability. your glorified sporting shotguns are simply nowhere near the fighting gun a properly converted Saiga is.

By the way, the Saiga receiver has teh same external dimensions, fixtures and holes as a standard Kalashnikov with just a couple more for the funky backed-up-for-import-purposes trigger group.
 
I don't understand the appeal of the Saiga. It may be a good rifle, . . . or rather I should say, . . . SOME of them may be good rifles, but if the sights are off center, that's just shotty workmanship and I don't see it as any "loss" if someone saw that and decided against it for the venerable 870.
 
They're russian AK's basically, designed to be a little on the "loose" side! No one uses the stock sights anyway. You convert it and use a red dot, Eotech, or AK style sight anyway. They're fun because they're the AR15 of the shotgun world. Easy to reconfigure at you every whim. No stock sights on these, or any of the 1,000 other you'll see on the Saiga-12 forum.

post-1029-1165651568_thumb.jpg

Bodyguard1.jpg
 
I suppose I get your point. Mill the crap sights off and put something actually usable on it. Gotcha.
 
I was going to make a wisecrack about putting a bayonet on one, and then the picture is posted.

Had no use for a Saiga before this thread, now...:D
 
Alright, now I'm beginning to change my mind back to the Saiga. After all, it was my first choice. :confused: I never thought about changing the sights. By the way, I was just at the gun store and they still have both the Saiga 12ga and the .410. Oh, what to do.......WHAT TO DO! ;)
 
The 12 has more aftermarket parts, but the 410 is also pretty popular. I don't have a lot of shotty experience (the S-12 is my first in fact). All I can say is the S-12 kicks like a mule to me. Still fun but leaves me bruised. Supposedly it might be my technique, not sure. The 20 also is supposed to kick as hard since it's lighter in the barrel. I have a 410 on order, but I'm sure it will be a lot easier on the body to shoot.

So, it all depends on what you want. A plinker go 410. All around and home defense, go S-12.

For more viewing pleasure, go to this thread and feast your eyes on what can be done. This forum IS THE place to go for info on converting Saigas.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=13312
 
Granted, it's room distance, but that's what it's for in my house.

The other day I took one of the s12s out to the range, tried some things:

Cheap S&B 3" 12 pellet OO buck loads: 5 shots COM in just under 3 seconds. The limiting factor was recoil.

Rustynuts: Get up on the gun, lean into it, almost like you're getting ready to tackle somebody, boxer stance with your feet. At least if we're talking about defensive/offensive use.
 
I was trying to do that, keeping it tight to the shoulder and all. Muzzle flip was fine. I could get back on target pretty easy. It was just after about 25 rounds of hi-power stuff I was done. Shoulder was black/blue for a week!
 
I have a couple of them that I just got a few weeks ago. I started looking pretty hard to find a couple and had some problems. Most had been on order for a couple of months or so. I put in my order and got in line at Gilberts. They told me that usually around this time of yr they become more avail to people. They were right. They called me back and told me they had my two and was I still interested in them. I told them one, got off of the phone and called right back and got both of them because they will not be avail for long. Gilberts had 68 of them a couple of weeks ago and I tried to order them. The next morning before they had opened they sold them out. I had to get on the next list and got them a couple of days later. Do what you want but if you want a good shottie, get one. They do kick like a mule with the 3in mags. RG
 
Alright, after kicking both the Saiga 12ga and the Remington 870 around, I made my final decision and purchased the 870. Reasons, the craftsmanship on the Saiga was only decent at best. I don't know if the two my local gun shop received were from a bad batch, but they definitely had that all around shoddy mass-produced look. As stated before, the sights were not really aligned. Yes, I know I could have spent more money on upgrades, but the silly thing was already priced at over $500. Lastly, I could swear that the barrel was slightly bent to the right.

As much as I love Eastern-Bloc guns, and as much as it pained me, I couldn't go with the Saiga shotguns at this time. Maybe later they'll get more in from a batch that comes without these problems.
 
I've never seen a saiga with canted sights and I have owned more than a couple and handled a bunch. I would consider such a thing to be a rarity.

I would have bought any instock saiga under $600.

The Saiga loads faster, holds more, is easily and completely reconfigurable. It is based on an action of world-renowned reliability. your glorified sporting shotguns are simply nowhere near the fighting gun a properly converted Saiga is.
Click to expand...

Saying that the 870 isn't even close to the saiga is not true and I love my saigas. The 870 is a very viable platform and even offers some signifcant advantages over a S12. The S12 has its areas of advantage to be sure and the is a reason I have bought multiple saiga shotguns. There are high and low points of both platforms.

Either gun is a very viable shotgun. I dare say there are folks with 870s that can shoot circles around some saiga 12 owners and visa versa.

I will say that I would really like a SBS S12. I still need a 20 round drum too.

Rusty you'll have to let us know what you think of the 20. I have a 12 and 410 but the lack of aftermarket and issues of reliabilty have detered me from the 20. I am interested in them though.
 
In the midst of the 20 conversion and have run into the lack of parts. Most stuff works, fine like the internals from Tromix. Problem seems to be the trigger guard right now. If you are REAL careful you can reuse the old one. Me, I cut them off to get at the rivets a little easier.
 
I'd love to get one, but I refuse to pay $600+ for stamped, cheap, POS constructed firearm. It is a useful platform, no doubt. But it is also cheap, ugly, and poorly made.

$300, yes. $600, no way. You watch, I guarantee there will be another boat load of them before January 2009.
 
Crazy Fingers said:
I'd love to get one, but I refuse to pay $600+ for stamped, cheap, POS constructed firearm. It is a useful platform, no doubt. But it is also cheap, ugly, and poorly made.

$300, yes. $600, no way. You watch, I guarantee there will be another boat load of them before January 2009.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding? Cheap and poorly made?

Guy, how long have you been around guns to make a crazy statement like that?

Geez...
 
I'd love to get one, but I refuse to pay $600+ for stamped, cheap, POS constructed firearm. It is a useful platform, no doubt. But it is also cheap, ugly, and poorly made.

$300, yes. $600, no way. You watch, I guarantee there will be another boat load of them before January 2009.
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree 100% with your comment. While I do not find them sexy like a Golden Clays over-under, they are well built and the ones that I have shot have been 100% reliable.

The best thing about the Saiga platform is that you can mod them to exactly how you want it. You can have the gas ports worked on to cycle with very short barrels. I would suggest you look at www.tromix.com and see what Tony can do with them. NFA is the way to go IMO.
 
I would agree that it is stamped, based on a platform designed for poorly trained troops for ease of maintenance. It is not an heirloom quality milled masterpiece. I'm unsure of who assembles it.

I think it is what it is. As long as one is aware of what they are getting, I'd say it's fine. Sadly, I think fear of a ban forces some to pay whatever price for an item that they'd normally only pay half of that for. Mainly because they know it would cost 4x that once a ban was in place.:uhoh:
 
There is a boatload in now. I see lots on gunbroker for under $600. Not as cheap as I got my first three ($398) but that is fine.

I love Benellis. I have an M1 and an M3 and I may even get another one. But by the time you pay for a Benelli PG stock and magazine tube extension, you are looking at well over 1k. You can get a stock saiga and ten, ten-tound mags for that much. Or a professionally converted Saiga with three ten round mags.
 
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