2nd. Saiga .12 guage as investment?

[Crazy Fingers]

Are you kidding? Cheap and poorly made?

Guy, how long have you been around guns to make a crazy statement like that?

Geez...

I think the appropriate question is "how long have you been around guns?". Look at the quality of rifle you can get for $600. Nice machined parts, good fit and finish, even decent walnut stocks. That is something that requires skill to make -- decent metallurgy, decent machining (you actually have to create rifling, instead of a TUBE), a person finishing the stocks that has some semblance of a craftsman, among many other facets to building a quality rifle.

You can try to say all you want that the Saiga-12 is some kind of quality piece of workmanship, but you are wrong. It is a cheap, stamped modified AK receiver, full of cheap, stamped parts, with a metal tube stuck on it, and a plastic stock. It all fits together about as tight as a Jesse Jackson's mouth. It was made in the same factory that stamps cheap mass produced stuff for conscripted peasant armies. It's just cheap Russian stuff! That's why Saiga AKs are less than $400.

Don't interpret this as me saying that the Saiga-12 is not worthy of being owned; quite the opposite. I would really love to have one. I think they're a great platform for social situations. In truth, I have been looking for one for awhile.

But there is NO WAY in the world that it is worth $600. The materials are not there, the labor is not there, and it only that expensive from FEAR.

 

[jmorris]

I got one Friday NIB from sportingarms.com for $484 after being jacked around by precisionweapons.com. The only reason I purchased one is to see if it can offer any advantage in 3-gun competition. I wouldn't pay as much for so much less any other way. The only reason the price is up is because of inpatients. Once supply is on par with demand dealers will be giving them away, until then, shop around.

 

[Rustynuts]

You can't call Saigas "cheap" anymore! As for being stamped. There are a lot of guns made with stamped parts. Check out a Saiga receiver as well. Although stamped, these things are a LOT thicker than your average AK stamped receiver. No aluminum foil here!

As for cheap metallurgy, just try to grind the stock tang off one to fit a US stock. You'll be there a good while. That steel definitely ain't soft!

 

[Rustynuts]

I don't think most people are liking these $600 prices either. Now the old $300-400 seemed about right for the gun. Problem is, it's like the housing bubble. Is it at the peak now? Or do you wait and they become $7-800 guns? Now that would really be pushing it I think. However, people have been gladly handing over $1,000+ for converted Saigas, even at the old prices.

 

[dasanii19]

I think the appropriate question is "how long have you been around guns?". Look at the quality of rifle you can get for $600. Nice machined parts, good fit and finish, even decent walnut stocks. That is something that requires skill to make -- decent metallurgy, decent machining (you actually have to create rifling, instead of a TUBE), a person finishing the stocks that has some semblance of a craftsman, among many other facets to building a quality rifle.

You can try to say all you want that the Saiga-12 is some kind of quality piece of workmanship, but you are wrong. It is a cheap, stamped modified AK receiver, full of cheap, stamped parts, with a metal tube stuck on it, and a plastic stock. It all fits together about as tight as a Jesse Jackson's mouth. It was made in the same factory that stamps cheap mass produced stuff for conscripted peasant armies. It's just cheap Russian stuff! That's why Saiga AKs are less than $400.

Don't interpret this as me saying that the Saiga-12 is not worthy of being owned; quite the opposite. I would really love to have one. I think they're a great platform for social situations. In truth, I have been looking for one for awhile.

But there is NO WAY in the world that it is worth $600. The materials are not there, the labor is not there, and it only that expensive from FEAR.

BIG +1 !!!

 

[Rustynuts]

I think fear is only partially a factor. It's mostly people that see one, and JUST HAVE to have it! The cool/fun factor. Throw in the limited supply, bingo, high prices. That's what happened to me when I bought mine at $480 last December. Missed the $390 batch by days, knew the price was going up next shipment and just HAD to get one, so got what I could at the time.

 

[Girodin]

But there is NO WAY in the world that it is worth $600.

That statement should be modified to read that it is not worth $600 to you.

The fact that they are flying of shelves at that price is indicative of the fact that they actually are worth that much, despite whatever normative feelings you may have on the matter. The reason is supply. The supply is lower than demand. Fear (presumably of not being able to buy one later or only for a much higher price) may be a factor, particularly as it relates to supply and demand, but it is not the only one and I'm not certain it is the proximate one.

I do agree the craftsmanship of an S12 is below what one would customarily pay for that money. If I compare my S12 (as it came from the factory) to my browing there is no real question which is the nicer, in terms of craftsmanship, gun. The browning isn't the only game in town for that type of shotgun, the saiga is.

In short worth is very subjective and like it or not Saigas are going to sell for $600 (and more). You may find a good deal and get one for $500 though.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

The saiga is my go anywhere, anytime, all purpose for me. I don't care much if it picks up a scratch or a ding, or ends up in the drink on accident. Just clean, lube, and go. I don't intentionally abuse it either.

The other shotguns in the stable do get used, but now only in nice weather. Since I brought home an S12, the other shotguns are living the high life. They get paraded around and pampered like prom queens.

Is it a gun that I intend on passing to my kids? Nope. Hope to live long enough to wear it out my ownself.

But the other ones will have that much less wear and tear on them when I do hand them down.

 

[ImARugerFan]

Find a used wingmaster, sounds like a better investment to me.

 

[Girodin]

Find a used wingmaster, sounds like a better investment to me.

I'm a fan of the wingmaster and there are couple in my safe. That said, neither have increased in value by 80% like the saigas I own.

Wingmasters are a great shotgun and one could argue a better buy than a saiga but they certainly are not a better investment in terms of yield on your return. Used ones are a dime a dozen and can be found rather cheaply if one looks.