3" 38/357 Realistic as a Starter?

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We just got back from the range where we rented a G19, XD9, FNX9, 4" GP100 and 2" SP101. Her favorite? The GP! :cool:

The GP was my favorite, too. What a cool handgun!

While I was really pulling for a 3" K, I'm willing to take it all back if it means a 3" or 4" Ruger! Others championing those revolvers have already pointed out many pluses.

By the way, Rugers are super-easy to swap mainsprings on. I jettisoned the 14lb stocker in both my GP and my SP in favor of a 12; that and some (careful) polishing of various internal contact points took both triggers from horrible to just fine. As you note, the front sight is easy to swap as well, you can do that yourself anytime. Either GP or SP will take any reasonable 38/357 load you can find, and do it all year long.
 
I'm burning up the internet getting ballpark prices on my list of candidates. Man, for the money a new-in-the-box GP100 is tough to beat. I've seen 3" models for less than $510 and blue 4" models for less than $490. For what I want to do - get started on a great, big pile of empty .38 and .357 cases - it may be the way to go.

I'm not having much luck finding S&W rentals within an hour of my current location. I'd like to experience the magical (mythical?) S&W trigger. I'd also like to compare a 3" with fixed sights to the 4" with adjustable sights that we shot yesterday.

I'll keep digging..
 
I've seen 3" models for less than $510 and blue 4" models for less than $490. For what I want to do - get started on a great, big pile of empty .38 and .357 cases - it may be the way to go.

The GP100 is a terrific revolver. It's a robust design, and tunes well if you ever go that route. The reach to the trigger is shorter than S&W's, so people with small hands often find it surprisingly easy to shoot.

Just be aware the 3" variant has fixed sights. It also doesn't have the easily-swapped interchangeable front sight the 4" version does, which I think are a very nice feature.

As a "starter", then, I'd recommend the 4" version, for the longer sight radius, and the adjustable rear and interchangeable front sight.
 
If you want the GP100, you won't be able to easily carry it in CC anyway, so I'd just go with a SS 4", KGP-141, with it's adjustable rear sight and replaceable front sight. The SS will be easier to clean - and those sights will accommodate wide ammo variations - from mild .38 Special plinker to hot hunting .357M loads. I'd suggest a +P .38 Special 642 for a CCW. Just remember to clean the .357M chambers well after shooting the shorter cased .38 Special rounds. Brownell's, and others, sell brass wire .357 Magnum 'Chamber' brushes, slightly larger in OD and length than a regular bore brush, for such use. Enjoy your shooting!

Stainz

PS If you do still want a smaller 3" .357M revolver, do look over the S&W 60 Pro.
 
^ Those are good points on the 3" vs 4". I was aware that the rear sight was fixed on the 3" but I didn't know that the front isn't as easily changed as on the 4".

I realize we're trying to cram a lot of roles (accommodate both me and my wife for fun, home defense and possibly concealed carry) into a single piece of equipment. She's told me that while she understands the need to be able to handle our defense weapon she's more comfortable shooting .22's.

For now I see us choosing a classic 4" 38/357 for 'me' for fun and home defense and a .22 for 'her' for fun and learning. In the process I'll be evaluating our need for a carry weapon. Quite honestly with our suburban lifestyle there aren't many places we go that are high risk and where weapons are not banned from the premises.

If we decide we have a need for a carry weapon I'll probably compare snubbies to single-stack 9mm's. By then I should have a lot more experience. I already know that if this turns into a hobby then all my plans and predictions will go out the window (the more I think about it the more I liked the FNX9). :D
 
Enjoy the Ruger GP, pearsonm - it's a great choice. Ruger also makes some excellent .22 handguns, too. The Mark II or 22/45 are great semi-autos. There's also a good-looking SP-101 revolver in .22lr with a 4.2" barrel she might like.

Now I'm off to find some Depleted Uranium ammo. The military uses it so it must be the best. :)
 
For now I see us choosing a classic 4" 38/357 for 'me' for fun and home defense and a .22 for 'her' for fun and learning.

Consider getting a DA .22LR revolver, then. Becoming proficient with any handgun (but especially a revolver) takes a lot of practice A .22LR revolver would serve as a good understudy to the GP100 for both of you, then. ;)

FWIW, my 1st 2 revolvers were a 4" 686 and a 4" 10-shot 617 .22LR that I bought on the same day. I've since become an IDPA Master with that 686, but my 617 is still my most-shot gun. I consider it one of my wiser firearm purchases, and it was (and is) instrumental in becoming (and being) proficient with a wheelgun.
 
This thread has been around the horn. It began, as I recall, with you looking for a gun for CC for you and your wife. The GP100 is a great shooting gun, but I doubt that you, or especially your wife, would carry it.
If defense and CC is your main priority (and I can't believe more haven't pointed this out) you should get a lightweight snubnose--a 442, 642, LCR or similar. Much is made of the "inaccuracy" of 2" barrels however you must bear in mind that the degree of accuracy required is similar to being able to hit a target the size of a large watermelon at from zero to 20 feet...not a difficult task--with a modicum of practice you can even do it from the hip. A CC gun should be concealable and easy to carry first of all. A 3" barrel rules out pocket carry for most...the most comfortable and least obtrusive method of carry many would contend. You don't need a .357 either. The .38 "FBI load" is a proven stopper. Recoil does become and issue with LW snubbies. There are light "cowboy loads" available which are comfortable to shoot even in light guns for practice. Good luck.
 
Ralph G. Briscoe said:
This thread has been around the horn. It began, as I recall, with you looking for a gun for CC for you and your wife.

An actual read of the early posts trumps your recollection. :rolleyes: The first time the OP mentioned application was post #8, where he wrote:

pearsonm said:
Our application will be for home defense and hopefully for fun
 
3" .357 as a starter?

I've read what was said and there is truth to alot of what was said. In a nutshell if your talking about something to carry a three in. will do but if it's for indoor defense a four in. will do as well. Personally some semi's are picky as to what is fed in them other's...let's just say you'll be buying alot of different brands and then find out what grain bullet will give you the best accuracy. Revolvers not so much if it's a fully adjustable rear sight then again I hear you get better accuracy with 158 grain but don't take my word for it. For 3in.barrels start at 110 grain and go up from there and see which is more accurate. The only semi I have heard good things about are the Glocks. The test I saw have Glocks going through 5000 rounds non-stop with no problems with different brands and grains. Then again it's your choice.
 
You might to check out the Taurus 617 Stainless in .38/.357 ... It holds (7) rounds, is very solid and hefty in your hands, and shoots just great once you swap out the factory springs for a set of Wolff Springs. The price is definitely right, also, compared to the competition.
 
^ A couple of friends who own Taurus's and Rossi's have suggested the Taurus 66. I really don't know anything about either maker other than Taurus is out of Brazil and has had relationships with S&W and Berretta. The few posts I’ve read about Taurus indicated there may be some quality issues.

I appreciate fine machinery but my budget typically makes me a value shopper, which is why I'm leaning towards Ruger. I'll do a little more research on Taurus.
 
The rental ranges are probably a good idea, as a new shooter you'll get more out of your purchase, feel more confident in it, having bought something you've shot and compared to others.

I have six Glocks, no safety problems in 15 or more years. I think I saw them like you did, as unsafe for carry, when I first got one too, but that changed pretty quick when every cop started carrying them in the '90's. I'm wearing my G27 now in fact. They really need to be kept in a good fitting holster when the chamber is hot. It may look unsafe on the outside, and fondling one loaded in absence of the holster isn't a good idea at all, but I've safely been carrying a loaded one in public for years. I trust mine as much as I trust a revolver to be honest, I've seen them fail too. Rare in both though. With a Glock, you have to pull the trigger, plain and simple, to make it fire. If I were to recommend a 9mm pistol to you for HD and carry and range --an all around good starter 9mm-- it would be the G19 and a good fitting belt holster, say a Blackhawk Serpa level 2. For IWB carry, I'd say a Milt Sparks VM2, they work really well for me. Without a proper holster though, a loaded Glock laying around is kind of an accident waiting to happen.

As for a 3" .357, man I say go for it. You'll still want a holster, especially if you carry, but I don't feel it requisite the way I do with Glocks (I pocket carry a 340PD from time to time). If you like the revolver and you learn to master the reloading (moon clips are REAL nice if you plan on really going revolver all out in my opinion) then it is an awesome weapon. Look up Jerry Miculek and all he does. He says he can do his reloads like this on a bad day, tired, no sleep, no practice, just jump out of the car do a competition like you see him do, and leave.

In addition to this, my wife would highly agree with your decision to use this with your wife --she is a big proponent of the revolver over the Glock too. She carries a no lock 649, but she loves my 6" 686+ no lock. If you can find an older one of those with a 3" bbl, that would be great, but the new ones are just as nice I bet. I'd have preferred her to have that myself, it really is a very fine revolver, but the 649 is a better carry choice due to the shrouded hammer and size --for her. If you get the 3" as a starter and then get your wife to carry that, to master it and carry it, she'll be one tough lady.

If you don't plan on carrying it, I'd get a longer barrel. That 6" 686+ for HD, yeah, that would work. It'll also be real accurate and capable of some really cool shots (I've shot mine to 300m!). If you want to carry it, the 3" is ideal, just great. Get the 7 shot cylinder though no matter what.

Lots of choices. Smith makes a ton of revolvers, something for everyone. So outside of the six Glocks I have, I have four Smith revolvers, the 686 and 3 J frames, all .357 save one .22 317; the Glocks and Smiths constitute the bulk of my pistols. Oh, and a Smith 1006 10mm auto. Which brings me to this: those 5906 and similar third generation Smith and Wesson pistols are selling for good prices now, they'll go up later. They are VERY well made pistols, they quit making them to compete with Glock. It is DA/SA similar to a Beretta, so you may feel safer with that if the Glock just doesn't float your boat, and there is no better $300 or less all stainless American made 9mm pistol. They are highly under rated pistols, get 'em while the gettin' is good. They came in about as many flavors as they have revolvers now too, so again, something for everybody.

Good luck to you and your wife.
 
Without a proper holster though, a loaded Glock laying around is kind of an accident waiting to happen.

Yea, it became evident real quick that with a SAP a holster is a crucial piece of equipment. I’m confident we’re capable of becoming proficient with a SAP, however I think for our application we can achieve at least an acceptable level of security with a little more ‘whoops‘ room with a revolver.

We simply enjoyed looking, holding, shooting and loading the GP. I want to learn how to speed load. I like the reams of 38/357 field data and am having thoughts of reloading. This is a gun I want to keep forever. Those things simply didn’t happen with the polymer, semi-auto 9mm’s. I’d feel different if we were relocating to Baghdad.

Anyway, one issue I’m trying to work out is that while I like the +1 capability of the 686P I don’t want to handicap myself if I join a shooting club. I believe the IDPA rules state revolvers can only be loaded to 6 rounds. Is it a major PITA to load a 7-shot loaded one round down? I would be joining a club for camaraderie and to learn but I also don’t want to be cussing myself the first time through because of a wrong equipment choice.
 
I'm another revolver guy

personm said:
For some reason I'm gravitating towards revolvers.

Understandable.

And the 3" mid-frame revolver is a good choice. I have a 3" round butt S&W Model 13 and it's a favorite, for a lot of reasons. If you have the revolver bug, it's a partial cure. They say nothing is a permanent fix for our malady. ;)
 
FBI used to carry 3" 357 6-shooters. These S&Ws and Rugers are pleasant to shoot and easy enough to control, either for a lady or a gentleman. Much easier to accurately follow up with than my 44 RM revolver.
Ruger still sells GP100 3".

Although 357 125 grain HPs look good on paper, I prefer the heavier bullets that may crack through the fore skulls of any pit bulls, etc...
 
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Although 125 grain HPs look good on paper, I prefer the heavier bullets that may crack through the fore skulls of any pit bulls, etc...

My goal is to work up to one of the classic .38 +P HP cop loads Ayoob lists in 'Concealed Carry' (158-grain Winchester and Remington and 135-gain Gold Dot's). Any 357's will be just for fun.

My wife mentioned she'd like to get a .22 to play with too, which was no big deal until I saw what a 617 costs! :what: I watched hickok45's review on the Taurus 94. Even he says the trigger's heavy. I'm certain that's the gummed-up hunk of metal we each had to get 70 rounds through in our CCW training. I'm hoping some 148-grain .38 wadcutters will get her over the recoil hump.
 
An actual read of the early posts trumps your recollection. :rolleyes: The first time the OP mentioned application was post #8, where he wrote:

Au Contraire. From his first post--"My wife and I are taking our CCW courses Saturday." Is English your second language?
 
My goal is to work up to one of the classic .38 +P HP cop loads Ayoob lists in 'Concealed Carry' (158-grain Winchester and Remington and 135-gain Gold Dot's). Any 357's will be just for fun.

My wife mentioned she'd like to get a .22 to play with too, which was no big deal until I saw what a 617 costs! :what: I watched hickok45's review on the Taurus 94. Even he says the trigger's heavy. I'm certain that's the gummed-up hunk of metal we each had to get 70 rounds through in our CCW training. I'm hoping some 148-grain .38 wadcutters will get her over the recoil hump.

You're right about the Taurus 94, out of the box anyhow. I managed to get the DA pull on mine out of the realm of the ridiculous by installing lighter Wolf main and trigger-return springs. It's much improved but still one of the crappiest feeling DA pulls I've encountered--not overly heavy, just wierd for someone used to Colts and Smiths. You have some other options in .22 DA revolvers--a used Smith 34 with some miles on it might be found on Gunbroker for under $500....wonderful revolvers....I prefer my 4" to the 617. If you want to stay in the Taurus price range but have a really solid, good-shooting revolver you should consider the High Standard Sentinel, or it's alias, the J.C. Higgins 88. I picked up a Higgins in nice shape last year on GB for $175....head and shoulders a better gun than the Taurus IMO. I'd steer clear of Iver Johnsons and H and R's....you'll spend as much as you would on a Sentinel for a lot less gun. Regarding low-recoil .38 factory loads, you might also consider some of the "cowboy loads" out there....the lighter bullet the better for recoil.
Good luck. Hope St.Louis is good to you. I grew up 60 miles north of there. It's a pretty nice town as big towns go.
 
Yea, it became evident real quick that with a SAP a holster is a crucial piece of equipment. I’m confident we’re capable of becoming proficient with a SAP, however I think for our application we can achieve at least an acceptable level of security with a little more ‘whoops‘ room with a revolver.

You need a holster, even a cheap one, no matter what pistol you buy. If you're out shooting and suddenly find yourself needing your hands for something, attached to your belt is frequently the best place to put your gun down for a few minutes. I don't know why you think a revolver (with no off switch) would be any more forgiving than a Glock (with no off switch). No matter what gun you buy, you cannot put your finger on the trigger with zero consequences. Dry firing is excellent practice, and important to help you really master your trigger pull, but you need to be very cautious and disciplined about keeping ammunition away from the gun while you are doing dry fire practice.

Other than that, there is no time when it's acceptable to put your finger on the trigger, thinking that one gun will be safer because it will give you more breathing room to play with it while loaded is the accident waiting to happen.

I like the reams of 38/357 field data and am having thoughts of reloading. This is a gun I want to keep forever. Those things simply didn’t happen with the polymer, semi-auto 9mm’s

Chasing your brass or bringing a tarp to catch it may be irritating, but lots of people handload 9mm and all the other auto calibers. Revolvers do give you a little more time to interact with the gun doing things other than pulling the trigger though, and are less troublesome for the reloader. And they look and feel really excellent. I'm not trying to shove 9mm autos down your throat, but you seem to have some preconceived notions that could be doing you a disservice. In the case of the problem you have with Glock triggers, which you haven't spelled out, it looks to me like your preconceived notions could create a potential safety hazard for you at some point. It can't be stressed enough to someone who is fairly new to handguns, but you absolutely cannot put your finger on the trigger unless you have already made a decision to fire. If you leave a loaded gun in the house, and it isn't secured in something that protects the trigger, like a holster, you are asking to have a problem.


Thinking about costs, spending a little more on a nicer .22 revolver is probably worth it no matter your budget. You can get hundreds of rounds of .22 for under $20, usually the 500-550 round bulk packs are less than that. Cheaping out on the gun because it's just a .22 could be a really bad move for you, given that you will almost certainly be spending many times the number of hours shooting it compared to your centerfire guns. The ammo is so cheap that for anyone with a decent job who isn't in crushing debt, spending an entire day shooting is almost a completely insignificant expenditure.

If you like things that feel nice, and feel quality, think about how much time you'll be shooting the rimfire handgun, and ask yourself if you'll eventually grow to regret your decision not to go with the nicer gun you really wanted.
 
I like the Rugersp101 3in. It's not as heavy as my gp100. The rear sight is windage adjustable and has laser grips. .327 fed mag hides well under a t-shirt.
 
I'm not trying to shove 9mm autos down your throat..

What? No - I don't think that. Why would you say that? :rolleyes:

I'm going with a 38/357 revolver. That's all you need to know. You said your piece – many, many times – so please move on. Thank you.
 
Alright. Hope no one tries to pick up your loaded, unholstered revolver.

Best of luck to you.
 
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