3 Men Beat Stepson in Coma. Man kills 2. NAACP cries "murderer"

[TargetTerror]

Not to put a damper on the interesting but off-topic direction in which this thread has been going...but the presence of drugs, legal or otherwise, is completely irrelevant to the shooting. AFAIK, you don't waive your right to defend yourself from being robbed and beaten even if you are selling drugs. Nor does dealing change the basic requirements and no nos for shooting someone in self defense.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Target,

I must agree, but you need to take it even further. These intruders were beating a member of his family. Obviously enough the stepson's life could be considered in danger. Protecting his family overrides any contriban he may have had in his house.

Selena

 

[revjen45]

"Pot should be legal in this country."
Yes it should. If it were our dependence on foreign oil would be reduced. Anything that can be made from petroleum oil can be made from hemp oil without adding to the carbon in the air. The plants would just recycle the carbon rather than put more into the atmoshpere.
Of course, if it were legalized legions of parasites would have to get a real job. Thousands of lawyers, federal agents, prison guards and other assorted non-productive people concomitant to the War on Drugs would be out of work. The War on Drugs is nothing more or less than the pretext by which the peons are persuaded to acquiesce to the destruction of the BOR while creating fiefdoms for the bureaucrats and income for the legal industry. After all, lawyers make work for other lawyers and they produce nothing of value.

 

[GTSteve03]

According to the Journal of the American Medical Association, in 2000 there were approximately 85,000 alcohol-related deaths in the US.

There were exactly 0 deaths due to marijuana.

Now, which one is illegal and why? And why is the man selling marijuana considered to be a criminal?

 

[Jeff White]

And why is the man selling marijuana considered to be a criminal?

Ummm...because he broke the law.

You're wrong. Irv Rosenfeld is one of a handful of people who receives weed from the federal government, and he's been doing so for over 20 years.

Show me the section of the United States Code that makes medical marijuana legal. Then I will believe it's legal.

AFAIK, you don't waive your right to defend yourself from being robbed and beaten even if you are selling drugs. Nor does dealing change the basic requirements and no nos for shooting someone in self defense.

I never said it did. In fact several posts back I said this:

The fact that Edmunds may (and in my opinion was) involved in criminal activity at the time, doesn't make his use of deadly force in self defense illegal, if it would have been legal if he hadn't been involved in criminal activity.

YOu all can make Edmunds out to be a hero and the new poster boy for our right to self defense if you want. I'm not. The reason Edmunds got into that situation was his criminal activity. Edmunds situation is the same as this situation that happened recently in St Louis:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...FED9B8ECEC3C2D4B86257391001B5A52?OpenDocument

Police search for vehicles in shoot-out
By Greg Jonsson
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
11/12/2007

St. Louis police were searching for two vehicles involved in a rolling shoot-out that injured a teenager Sunday night.

The two vehicles -- a dark-colored van and a dark green Chrysler Sebring -- were driving down Maffitt Avenue near Newstead Avenue about 10 p.m., occupants in the cars firing at each other, police said. As 12 to 14 shots were fired between the vehicles, a 17-year-old boy who lives in the neighborhood was hit in the leg. Police said he did not appear to be an intended target but was hit by a stray bullet during the shootout, which also damaged a car and two homes.

The vehicles sped off, leaving the teen in the street. He was taken to a hospital, police said. His injuries did not appear to be life-threatening.

Police received several reports of vehicles speeding from the area but were still looking for the two vehicles late Sunday night.

Just another case of criminals fighting with other criminals. Which by the way accounts for the great majority of self defense cases in this country.

Jeff

 

[GTSteve03]

Ummm...because he broke the law.

Exactly.

However, what does this law protect us from? Why exactly is marijuana illegal? How many people does it kill every year?

Just because it's a law doesn't mean it makes sense, unless it's your job to uphold the laws. Then you kinda have a conflict of interest.

 

[Jeff White]

However, what does this law protect us from? Why exactly is marijuana illegal? How many people does it kill every year?

Makes no difference if it doesn't protect anyone, it's the law. If you don't like the law and wish it to be repealed, then you need to get the people that you elect to make the laws to repeal it.

It doesn't make a bit of difference in this case if the marijuana laws are just and fair. This is a case of a criminal enterprise erupting in violence.

Ending the so called war on drugs probably would have kept this from happening. But the people haven't ended it yet, so it happened. I stand by my contention that if Edmunds hadn't been involved in criminal activity, this wouldn't have happened at all.

The great majority of self defense situations in this country are exactly like this one. People who live a criminal lifestyle fighting with other people who live that lifestyle. That is the truth about violence in the US.

Jeff

 

[JWarren]

It isn't the legality of a particular substance that is the actual issue. It is the criminal nature of the interprise that attracts those looking for profit margins.

Let us not forget that the primary business of Al Capone was alcohol-- which is legal now. You don't see that many "bootleggers" these days. Why? There is no great profit in it anymore.

The same kind of guy that would have been a bootlegger then is selling illegal drugs now.


If Marijuana was made legal, wanna know what would happen? You'd buy it in a store.

And the former dealers of Marijuana would be selling another drug that was STILL illegal like Crack or Meth. Why? because there would no longer be a profit motive in Marijuana. They'd have to find something where there was still a profit potential.

Thus is the Black Market.


-- John

 

[CannibalCrowley]

Show me the section of the United States Code that makes medical marijuana legal. Then I will believe it's legal.

Wow, it's like listening to a little kid who just plugs his ears and shouts, "no, no, no, no!." Did you even look at the video I posted; you know, the one where Irvin brings marijuana into a hearing on a state bill for legalization? There's plenty of evidence; but I'll start you off here: Compassionate IND.

Whether you like it or not, your federal tax dollars go towards the cultivation, preparation, and distribution of marijuana for a number of patients who were originally part of the Compassionate IND program

 

[bhp9mm]

the naacp needs the hell kicked out of them if it was their family they wood have did the some thing i dob't care if their black are white i wood have shot their ass full on holes if they wear hiting me and my family with a bat anyboy elese wood to.

 

[Autolycus]

It doesnt really mention race. Methinks the original poster was just trying to stir up some anti-black sentiment.

All of them are criminals. We have burglars, drug dealers, and just all around losers. I dont see it as a big loss for society.

Did anyone notice the date of the article? But arent we a few months behind?

 

[Jeff White]

Wow, it's like listening to a little kid who just plugs his ears and shouts, "no, no, no, no!." Did you even look at the video I posted; you know, the one where Irvin brings marijuana into a hearing on a state bill for legalization? There's plenty of evidence; but I'll start you off here: Compassionate IND.

A research program with 7 participants and no more allowed, hardly makes it legal. It's legal for those 7 people. No one else. The laws in the United States Code forbidding anyone not participating in that sanctioned research program from medicinal use of marijuana are still in place. There are federally funded research projects into all sorts of things that are illegal for the people not participating in those projects to do. This is no different then research on any other drug they want to get approval for. That drug may be working fine on any number of test subjects, but it's quite illegal for anyone not involved in the test to use it.

But you miss my point which is, this whole incident is criminals killing criminals. The criminal lifestyle is the reason this entire situation happened. It doesn't matter if Edmunds was selling untaxed ginger snaps. He was selling an illegal substance and people came to take it from him. Morale of the story, don't sell illegal substances and your chances of someone being willing to invade your home to take said illegal substances go down dramatically.

Edmunds should not be the poster boy for the right to keep and bear arms in self defense. It has been the violence of people involved in criminal activity, usually against each other, that was the catalyst for two of the big pushes for gun control we've had....the gangs fighting over turf for the sale of alcohol during prohibition gave us the National Firearms Act of 1934...the gangs fighting over turf for the sale of crack in the late 80s early 90s gave us the Clinton Assault Weapons ban.

Jeff

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

and if in fact this guy was dealing his having a gun was a bozo no no
the kinda money there is in weed has gotten quite a few folks killed. don't know if they count as "people killed by marijuana" but we hasd a guy hit and killed by a guy real stoned. and his testimony would indicate the he thought the pot impaired him. i drove a cab and had 2 accidents. coincidentally both times i was getting stoned go figure

 

[JWarren]

Tecumseh wrote:

It doesnt really mention race.

From article:

He also pointed to racially tinged tensions between Edmonds' family and two black teenage neighbors who had issued threats

Last week, observers from the Lake County chapter of the NAACP showed up. And Burton said she sometimes wonders whether she'll "have to pull Johnnie Cochran from his grave" to get justice in a city that is 76 percent white and 5 percent black.

Even though the case has acquired racial overtones, Besley insists that her grandson, who had scuffled with the two black teenagers in his neighborhood, is not biased.

"I'm married to a black man," said Besley, mother of Gary Lafferty, Dale's father.

Can we get a consensus on how many mentions of race are required?

Methinks the original poster was just trying to stir up some anti-black sentiment.

No surprise that you'd think that.

Without knowing the thoughts of the original poster, I think many would conclude that they have a problem with the motivations of an organization that advocates based upon race.

To many, it seems that in the eyes of some organizations such as the NAACP, race becomes a mitigating factor in the actions of persons-- or it sways (in a case such as this) the very notion of what is right and wrong.

I did not see enough evidence in the article that would give insight into the mindset of the NAACP, having only this mention:

Last week, observers from the Lake County chapter of the NAACP showed up. And Burton said she sometimes wonders whether she'll "have to pull Johnnie Cochran from his grave" to get justice in a city that is 76 percent white and 5 percent black.

But I would have to assume that IF they are indeed crying "Murder," I would question the motives of the organization. And that is well within the rights of any rational person without being implied as being a racist.

It seems to some that any critical evaluation of the actions or words of certain organizations and prominent persons is grounds to be called a racist by some people.

Predictibly, the usual suspects have arrived to make that accusation.

To me, that screams of the fascism of the PC crowd. Intellectual dishonesty and agenda-motivated thinking where the result dictates the course of inquiry are very ugly things.


-- John

 

[Don Gwinn]

We're a long way into the old Legal & Political territory here, with a lot of posts that are reminiscent of the worst that forum had to offer. You don't get, for instance, to call another member a child because you don't like what he has to say. Even if he's a moderator, you still can't do that.