3 Years to Life in Prison in Utah "Neighborhood Watch" Shooting Case

[Kleanbore]

Posted by ants: Sometimes it would seem that these small number of people [who seem to think they can take the law into their own hands to apprehend someone believed to have done wrong, or to right that wrong] get their continuing education from TV and movies. Vigilante justice is a common theme in action entertainment.

Upon leaving school (high school, college, trade school, whatever) folks rarely pursue continuing education in a formal setting, but rely on newspapers, magazines, and TV news broadcasts. It is a short jump to add TV drama and movies to those media. When Charles Bronson and Clint Eastwood movies become your self-defense training scenarios, you are bound to make big mistakes in real life.

Posted by Harley Quinn: I have a feeling the shooter had been watching to many old cowboy reruns of the 60s and 70s...

"Gunsmoke" kills um off daily, waving firearms around and shooting was not a big deal, unless you tried to shoot Matt Dillion, then it was a death sentence, right then and there...

You folks may be on to something here. You may have seen me ponder, "too much television?".

I like to relax while watching old half-hour western re-runs. Gene, Hoppy, and Roy and all of their sidekicks, the Masked Man and Tonto, and the guys on Bonanza all routinely drew their guns and pointed them at people whom they could not lawfully shoot (even at the sheriff), without ending up gunned down or behind bars.

There may also be some subconscious association between firearms and law enforcement in the minds of some people--"I have a gun, just like a policeman, so I can go after the perp, tell him to get on the ground, cuff him,...".

Whatever the root cause may be, that kind of belief is not good, as the defendant in this case found out.

I have also often wondered whether it is what people have seen so often on screen that makes some people seem to believe that a gun in hand will ward off the bullets of the violent criminal actor, whether in house clearing, going out in the yard at night to investigate a noise, or doing what the defendant did in this case.

The defendant has been convicted. He's lucky he wasn't shot or run over.

 

[mljdeckard]

^^I agree. It is entirely possible no one ever TOLD him he's not allowed pursue and confront someone like he did. I can certainly say that there are many critical laws I didn't know about even AFTER I got my permit, I have continued to study and learn along the way.

 

[The Sarge]

If I were on the jury I would have probably found him guilty also based on the posted/published facts I have read. You dont holster up and "go looking" for people.

 

[alohachris]

I was on a neighborhood watch once. We were sanctioned by the PD and supervised directly by the Commander of the local precinct. We wore uniforms and carried radios to communicate with the police dispatcher and officers in the field. We were very successful in reducing crime in our neighborhood. Our instructions were crystal clear: "You are additional eyes and ears of the police. You are not to attempt to stop, confront, question or apprehend anyone. If you see something suspicious, or a crime in progress, call it in."

We once pursued a mugging suspect for many blocks, reporting his movements in real time. He realized this and came at us with a knife. We backed away quickly and when he turned to run, we pursued him again. He was arrested after officers arrived and we pointed out the dumpster he was hiding behind. That's a neighborhood watch. Riding around with your buddy, armed and sanctioned by no one is not.

 

[kgpcr]

You go looking for trouble and you will find it every time. Both were stupid. now both are in jail. both trying to be cops. both being tough guys now both are screwed

 

[Ryder]

If he had a cell phone he should have called in the license number when he found the vehicle. Then he could have followed them to report their location to the police. I don't have a cell but that's what I would have done if I did. Very bad move to pull a felony stop on someone if you aren't a cop.

I don't believe the guy who was shot laid the gun on the ground and kicked it away. The only safe method for one armed person to surrender to another armed person is to raise your hands high and not reach anywhere near a sidearm. He could have been shot reaching for his gun.