30-06 imr 4064 load development

[Charlie98]

im more apt to believe it just doesnt like these sst boat tail because after 2 work ups with 2 powders i cant get smaller than 1.25 inches.

I was going to suggest you try a different bullet. The one downside to Hornady bullets is their 'secant' ogive, which is almost a taper vs a regular curved ogive... it may put up good BC numbers, but some rifles don't like them. This is a good picture of the difference; although these are FMJ bullets, the exhibit the typical difference in the Hornady ogive. L to R: Winchester, Prvi, Hornady...

 

[W.E.G.]

Go with 47.0 grains with the 150 if you are shooting Garand at 200 yards and less.

The 10-ring I'm shooting at on the NRA "SR" target is a wee bit larger than two MOA.
47.0 grains with a decent bullet in a decent barrel holds that 10-ring quite reliably if I do my part. Which is really only most of the time. Definitely not ALL the time.

47.0 will provide plenty gas to cycle the gun, and won't be maximum blammo for blast and recoil.

I've eaten ENOUGH blammo at this point in my life. Got the lump on my cheekbone, and loose dental work to prove it.

The raised primer is no concern unless the primer is LEAKING. I shoot 47.0 grains with lots of medium-burning rifle powders. I have a couple cans of full-blammo ammo if I need to go on a blammo excursion. Which is highly unlikely.

In the meantime, less blammo means more shooting for me. Which I think is a good thing.

 

[Charlie98]

Go with 47.0 grains with the 150 if you are shooting Garand at 200 yards and less.

While I agree with you about the 47grn/150grn combo in the Garand... I've been loading that load for years... I think the OP is using a bolt gun of some sort.

 

[OFFGRID]

While I agree with you about the 47grn/150grn combo in the Garand... I've been loading that load for years... I think the OP is using a bolt gun of some sort.

rem 700

 

[lordpaxman]

maybe it is the rifle....but i doubt it. it shot this group a couple months ago. honady whitetail box ammo 100 yards.

The rifle, the ammo, the shooter…. all contribute. I don’t know what factory ammo looks like anymore, but why don’t you measure the factory ammo COL and see how that compares to what you are loading? I thought Hornady loads interlocks but not sure how that compares to your bullet.

 

[Nature Boy]

@OFFGRID

Give us an idea of your expectations here.

It may seem obvious but I still have to manage my expectations when I go from target rifles to hunting rifles.

I’m going to assume this is a hunting rifle as it’s a 30-06 and you are using hunting bullets. Is your goal to shoot minute of white tail? If so, you’re spend mental calories on stuff that won’t matter, like seating depth. Magazine length is your limiting factor here, not distance to the lands.

 

[OFFGRID]

@OFFGRID

Give us an idea of your expectations here.

It may seem obvious but I still have to manage my expectations when I go from target rifles to hunting rifles.

I’m going to assume this is a hunting rifle as it’s a 30-06 and you are using hunting bullets. Is your goal to shoot minute of white tail? If so, you’re spend mental calories on stuff that won’t matter, like seating depth. Magazine length is your limiting factor here, not distance to the lands.

i was expecting a little better group when everyone who reloads insists on older powders like 4064 and 4350 and then posts pics of tight groups with the same model rifle and powder and then kinda makes it seem like theres something wrong with me for not shooting the same group.

wierd how as the load increased the groups kinda got worse. i thought it was supposed to go the other way

what i was going for is a load test to work up a decent hunting load and hoping to get input from more experienced people. seems i getting alot of flack for it. thats cool. i wont post any more load testing if its an issue.


matter of fact i think im done posting altogether. ill figure it out in my own or just buy factory ammo.

"minute of whitetail" thats good

 

[Charlie98]

wierd how as the load increased the groups kinda got worse. i thought it was supposed to go the other way

You were likely coming out of the barrel node. If you would have reduced a tad, it might have fallen back in node, or continued on you would likely have found the next node... within safe load data, of course.

matter of fact i think im done posting altogether. ill figure it out in my own or just buy factory ammo.

I hope you aren't done. There is a lot of information here, and a lot of experience... you just have to weed out the replies that don't offer anything positive. WE also learn from what you are doing...

 

[thump_rrr]

If the 47gr load was shot with the writing in the right direction, it has the least amount of vertical dispersion.
I would at least test the 47gr load again.

 

[Nature Boy]

what i was going for is a load test to work up a decent hunting load and hoping to get input from more experienced people. seems i getting alot of flack for it. thats cool. i wont post any more load testing if its an issue.

Here’s my input, which is similar to what you’ve received before.

Taking 3 shots per charge weight and comparing group size doesn’t tell you much because it isn’t a statistically significant sample size.

Here’s the good news

Take those same targets you just shot, find the approximate centroid of those 3 shot groups, measure the distance of the centroid from your point of aim, identify charge weights that deviate the least compared to adjacent groups and viola, you have found the accuracy node using the OCW method

 

[OFFGRID]

Here’s my input, which is similar to what you’ve received before.

Taking 3 shots per charge weight and comparing group size doesn’t tell you much because it isn’t a statistically significant sample size.

Here’s the good news

Take those same targets you just shot, find the approximate centroid of those 3 shot groups, measure the distance of the centroid from your point of aim, identify charge weights that deviate the least compared to adjacent groups and viola, you have found the accuracy node using the OCW method

will that get me to a "minute of whitetail?"

i really dont understand what youre going for here. maybe i need to get a dictionary out and see what those fancy words mean....but im gonna guess it comes close to "pick the best group and load it" (loosly translated to hillbilly).

yeah to heck with this site.

 

[Nature Boy]

“Minute of white tail” is just another way of saying “hunting level of accuracy”.

i really dont understand what youre going for here

I’m trying to give you some input, which is what you asked for.

yeah to heck with this site.

Take care and good luck to you

 

[OFFGRID]

“Minute of white tail” is just another way of saying “hunting level of accuracy”.



I’m trying to give you some input, which is what you asked for.

maybe im taking it wrong but the voice i heard in my head when i read your reply was that a snobby douchebag and i just didnt have any patience today for it. idk all of you guys slang terms and i figured minute of whitetail was a way of talking down to someone who hunts.

then you followed up with fancy, unneeded words describing how to pick the best groups. again kinda sounds like talking down to somebody....and again today aint the day for it.


for someone with such a large vocabulary your reading comprehension sucks. looks back when i said "i got a better group with another powder so i probably wont run this load" or "i get better groups with honady whitetail" i even posted a picture of said group. both statements convey that im not happy with any of these and concider it a failure. i also said thats its not cost effectice to spend more money chasing a decent load for this bullet that my gun seems to not like so much and i will test a work up with a flatbase interlock to see if it gets better.


but yet here we are. people like you coming in a day later asking what im doing and what im looking for. i guess i figured it obvious so it sounds a little sarcastic. im sorry i even posted this. i was just hoping to find something halfway decent that i could build on but i feel like that was a failure....just like every other load test ive tried with THIS specific rifle.

so like i said ill figure it out on my own or ill just buy hornady whitetail

 

[OFFGRID]

q

 

[rdnktrkr]

Trying to explain what I think Nature Boy said....I downloaded a target that has 9 bullseye on it that way I can easily see how far from center of bullseye each shot and where those shots are from bullseye, my theory being I want to find 3 groups that are close to each other and load in the center of those 3 for a "node" then you can start with bullet jump, neck tension, primer pockets, brands of primers, phase of the moon, etc it is a fun rabbit hole to fall into
I am still chasing my perfect load, I have loads that are good and some that are great but I feel I can improve all of them

 

[.45Coltguy]

i tried 52 grains first. got a rec from a member here. figured id give it a shot. it was the worst so i did a ladder test.

i have been using blc2 with these and my best was a 1.25 inch group. i figured good enough for deer but i cant see buying more imr 4064 for this load. blc2 is much cheaper

i have a pound of stayball 6.5 on the shelf. i think ill save it for something else.

im gonna test a ladder load of imr 4895 with 150 interlocks soon and some 150 grain interlocks over 50 grains of accurate 4064. if niether of those are mind blowing ill just buy hornady whitetail from now on. it shoots 3/4 inch groups from this rifle and its cheaper than buying a bunch of components for testing.


lets get down to the nitty gritty, these sst bullets in this rifle sit .2 inches off the lands and the rifle is old and shot alot of rounds. i think im gonna move up to 165 and 180 grain bullets. they will be longer and maybe i can get closer to the lands and still habe plenty of bullet left in the mouth of the cartridge.

I'm the one who mentioned 52.0gr IMR4064 to OFFGRID. It has worked superbly in my rifle and for other shooters who shoot the same load. Here is the exact load:
52.0gr IMR4064
Hornady 150gr FB Interlock SpirePoint[Item #3031]
Win. cases
Rem LR primers
OAL: 3.235"
Rifle is a sporterized 03-A3 with 4 groove barrel[22"], Timney trigger, Leupold VXII 3-9x40 scope.
New rifle using same, exact load is a Ruger MkII. Same results.
It could your rifle simply doesn't care for the SST bullet.
If I ever drop down to the 150's again in a 30-06, it'll be that Interlock SP FB.

 

[2ndtimer]

OFFGRID, I sympathize with your frustration trying to find a handload that matches or beats a factory load that your particular rifle likes. I, too, went down that road decades ago, also with a 30-06 that seemed very picky about what ammo it liked.
I finally found an accurate load, 58.0 gr of H-4831 with a 165 gr Nosler Solid Base spitzer with a CCI-200 primer in Winchester brass. I killed my first buck with it and was thrilled. Until I gained access to a chronograph and found out that my accurate load clocked only 2400 fps out of the 20” barrel of the Model 70 Winchester lightweight carbine. What? According to the manuals, that load should have been at least 2700 fps, if not 2800! (Never mind that the deer died with one shot behind the front leg and passed through the offside shoulder). Factory ammo had been less than impressive, accuracy wise, and eventually I figured out that my shorter barrel was not going to provide the velocity that a 24” barrel would in handloads.
I picked up a box of factory PMC 150 gr soft points, and was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy they got. So I pulled a bullet out of one of them and dumped out the powder. The charge weighed only 49.5 gr and was a short grain extruded type. Perusing various load manuals, I decided to try a similar charge of IMR-4895 with a 150 gr Nosler Solid Base bullet and surprise! Decent accuracy! Velocity was still lower than I would have liked, but it was consistently accurate. Later, I hit on an even better load, using Accurate 2700 that also gained almost 200 fps over the PMC factory 150’s and my similar handload. Bottom line is, if you find a load that your rifle likes, and you are satisfied, go with it. Or, if you want to keep trying to improve on it, join the club. Send me a pm if you would like to see my load data that I experimented with over the 12 years that I played with my 30-06 (from 1985 to 1997). You may find it interesting. Some of the powders and bullets are no longer available, but a lot of them still are.
My last piece of advice is, if you do opt for factory ammo, buy a bunch of the same lot no. If you buy the same ammo 3 years later, it might be loaded with a completely different powder and give very different results in your rifle.

 

[JFrank]

maybe im taking it wrong but the voice i heard in my head when i read your reply was that a snobby douchebag and i just didnt have any patience today for it. idk all of you guys slang terms and i figured minute of whitetail was a way of talking down to someone who hunts.

then you followed up with fancy, unneeded words describing how to pick the best groups. again kinda sounds like talking down to somebody....and again today aint the day for it.


for someone with such a large vocabulary your reading comprehension sucks. looks back when i said "i got a better group with another powder so i probably wont run this load" or "i get better groups with honady whitetail" i even posted a picture of said group. both statements convey that im not happy with any of these and concider it a failure. i also said thats its not cost effectice to spend more money chasing a decent load for this bullet that my gun seems to not like so much and i will test a work up with a flatbase interlock to see if it gets better.


but yet here we are. people like you coming in a day later asking what im doing and what im looking for. i guess i figured it obvious so it sounds a little sarcastic. im sorry i even posted this. i was just hoping to find something halfway decent that i could build on but i feel like that was a failure....just like every other load test ive tried with THIS specific rifle.

so like i said ill figure it out on my own or ill just buy hornady whitetail

Your efforts are not a failure at all, I learned something about 30-06 and IMR 4064 just from reading the thread.
Thx for posting
Jim
Almost forgot - I’ve attached a burn chart but disregard if you already have one.

 

[Nature Boy]

i heard in my head when i read your reply was that a snobby douchebag

I realize that describing something in words can be confusing, but we are limited by the constraints of an internet forum. It’s actually a pretty simple process in application.

Your nasty response to me not withstanding, I’m loading up a 30-06 load development test using the OCW method and will post the results, with pictures and explanations, when I’m done.

I could not care less whether you get anything from it, or not. Someone else may find it helpful.

I wasn’t born with this knowledge. Someone showed me and I was open enough to hear what they were saying without taking it personally.

 

[JFrank]

working up a load for my rifle today. maybe you guys can chime in. still kinda new at this. 30-06 with 150 grain hornady sst. imr 4064 from 47 to 51.5 grains, fiocchi LRP, oal 3.22 with a very lite crimp just enough to roll the edge in the cannelure. pics to follow

groups of 3 shots at 100 yards

View attachment 1135885

Without skimming all the post’s and not being a 30-06 re loader , I’ll just ask if there is any chance that this rifle just doesn’t like the crimp ? While experimenting I have noticed that when my bullet hold is too heavy or too light I’ll get random/erratic groups where I’m not sure even how to interpret them, of course inside my tune ( neck tension)window my groups settle down.
I’m just tossing this out for discussion..