30-06 still King?
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Garandimal
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TxRoadDog
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It's not king in my house for sure... in shear numbers 7.62x54r would take that crown. My go to hunting cartridges these days are the 30 WCF and 45-70 loaded to trap door levels. Nothing in the State of Texas requires anymore than that.
I don't even really hunt all that much anymore, so the topic is a lost cause for me anyways. Can't afford it.
I don't even really hunt all that much anymore, so the topic is a lost cause for me anyways. Can't afford it.
True, but some of us "old timers" still like to dance with the gal what brung us.
I haven't been around quite as long as the old '06, but the Garand was adapted the year I was born and I've shot 30-06's a long, long time in one platform or another. Shot my first match in 1954 with the rifle I was issued and later accurized my own :
Had to give up service rifle competition due to failing eyesight and switched to a bolt gun where front aperture sights were allowed. Had to change rifles (pre-64 Win. Mod. 70), but saw no need to change from the venerable 30-06:
Not allowed in matches and not much to look at, but this sight on the old M1 lets the old girl shoot 5/8" five shot groups @ 100 again, even with my old eyes.
The 30-06 will never be obsolete; not at my house, it won't.
Regards,
hps
Nature Boy
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I think it’s everyone's patriotic duty to own at least one of each of the free world military calibers, obviously including the .30-06
What, no 45-70, 30/40 Krag or .30 carbine?
Ya pretty well got all of the rest (standard issue) covered, though.
Regards,
hm
Nature Boy
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What, no 45-70, 30/40 Krag or .30 carbine?
Regards,
hm
I should have included “modern” to my description
Jason_W
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What it that deer is in Grizzly Bear country?
GR
Heh. When was the last time any of us here was face to face with a grizzly? There’s what, 10 of them left in the wild at this point?
Varminterror
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Where are you getting that misinformation?
Actually the 30-06 is just a tad flatter than the 308; not much, but a tad, and you can load heavier bullets in the 06.
308 Win. 150 gr. FMJ
30-06 150 gr. FMJ
Regards,
hps
Labguy47
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I was camping with my family when I was 7 and came nose to nose with a grizzly bear. We where in the Smokey mtns. I think my heart stopped.
Nah, you said one....you didn't say all. Seriously, you bout got em all covered. I'm set for all of those plus the M1 carbine but have never actually loaded for the 9mm; don't shoot it that much and just haven't bothered to develop a load.
Regards,
hps
Buzznrose
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Do you know why you can always find 30.06 ammo on store shelves? Because there are never any panic runs on 30.06.
Do you know why there are never panic runs on 30.06 ammo? Because guys who own 30.06 rifles don’t panic!
Do you know why there are never panic runs on 30.06 ammo? Because guys who own 30.06 rifles don’t panic!
joseywales76
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I'm thinking my next boltgun build will be 06
LRDGCO
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There are lots of Grizzlies. The Secretary of Education views them as a threat to school children in WY. You may be thinking Polar bear.
But as Al Gore has noted "When I was born there were 30,000 Polar bears. Now, a mere 150,000 remain."
Is kinetic energy an exact measure of lethality? Generations of in print Gunwriters have claimed it Kinetic energy is an exact measure of lethality, with charts listing how much KE is needed for this size animal, and more KE for a bigger animal. All of it is pseudo science. None of their claims has anything that might be considered a replicable result or process.
This guy has a very interesting page on terminal ballistics:
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
I agree with this statement the author makes:
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/mechanics.html#lethality
Other than hits to the central nervous system (brain and spine) or the unpredictable mechanism of spontaneous cardiac arrest or cranial hemorrhage, the only reliable cause of rapid death is through hemorrhaging produced by cutting a hole through major blood-bearing organs (heart, lungs, liver) or major blood vessels (e.g., aorta). The dimensions and especially the location of the cavity produced by the bullet will determine the rate of hemorrhaging and in turn the rapidity of the onset of death. It is actually more lethal in some cases to sever the arteries directly above the heart, than to penetrate the heart itself. If these arteries are cut, blood pressure instantly drops to zero and death will follow in seconds (this is one reason why an arrow can kill as fast as a bullet). Lethal hemorrhaging does not depend upon how much blood exits the body, but only upon the loss of blood pressure.
I am not a believer of KE numbers, I believe that the greatest through hole is the best predictor of lethality. (And in so far as that, where is the data?) To create the greatest through hole, bullet expansion at velocity is extremely important. Every so often a gunwriter writes something worth reading, and Dave Scovill in Handloader 318, "Revisiting Bullet Performance" hit a home run. To quote "One of the most interest facets of Mr. Scuichetti's work is that the vast majority of what we might call "hunting" bullets deliver optimum performance in terms of penetration potential and weight retention with an impact velocity window ranging from 2,500 fps to 2,200 fps."
Run the ballistic numbers and see just at what distances your favorite thunderstick keeps its bullets between these velocities.
Anyway, the 30-06 is still a grand cartridge. It does not kick as hard as one of the magnums, does not have the ear shattering, flinch creating blast of a magnum. One article claimed that 300 Win Mag was the only "magnum" to still have good sales numbers, even though the author did not provide a ranking of sales. I have shot the 30-06 extensively, it is easy to reload, the best loads were figured out decades ago. If your 30-06 won't shoot a 150 gr bullet with 47.5 grains IMR 4895, or a 168 SMK with 55.0 grs IMR 4350, then something is wrong with the gun or the shooter. The 30-06 performs well out to 300 yards with all bullet weights, I consider the 400 yards plus crowd to be unethical types, especially when you look at bullet expansion at those distances, and the difficulty of placing the shot within a lethal zone (about the size of a pie pan on deer) at distance, so out to the extreme range of bullet expansion and shooter CEP, the 30-06 is an excellent performer. I have shot the thing in competition and out to 1000 yards, and it kicks too much for a target round, but it is quite capable of target grade accuracy all the way out.
And this is an important consideration, if the country store carries ammunition, they have the 30-06 in stock. Don't discount supply at source as an important factor.
Even old 30-06 rifles are capable of excellent accuracy.
cdb1
Member
Please! Please! post a picture of the scope while in the act of shooting.
Kinetic energy equals potential to do work upon the target. Of course it's not a measure of absolute lethality, but there must be some way to compare cartridges. And if you could keep the penetration constant, while magically increasing the KE, there would be larger and larger wounds. If people think that VMAX's from a 22-250 with 1600 foot pounds make a better bear gun than 270 Speers from a .44 Magnum carbine making only 1300 foot pounds, it only shows they don't have an adequate understanding of said concepts. It's not possible to boil it down to one number.
I don't know if it's king, but I think the .30-06 is still pretty good. Factory ammo usually mimics the 308, but it can be loaded to nip at the heels of your typical 300 Mag. He didn't say deer, he said "for anything that can be hunted in the USA".
cdb1
Member
A grizzly bear in the Smokey mountains? I don’t think so.
cdb1
Member
The last time I hunted with a 30-06 was the deer season before I bought my .270 in 1972. But I have a 30-06, always will and maybe one day when I’m bored I’ll hunt with it.
I also believe geography plays a role. If I lived further north where there are elk, moose and grizzlies then 30-06 might easily be what I hunted with the most. Here in Texas though my 6.5x55 is more than enough gun for anything I shoot with the exception of nilgai. So if constrained to one cartridge then in Texas it’s 6.5x55. If I lived in Alaska I’m pretty sure it would be 30-06.
I also believe geography plays a role. If I lived further north where there are elk, moose and grizzlies then 30-06 might easily be what I hunted with the most. Here in Texas though my 6.5x55 is more than enough gun for anything I shoot with the exception of nilgai. So if constrained to one cartridge then in Texas it’s 6.5x55. If I lived in Alaska I’m pretty sure it would be 30-06.
In 60 years, the odds of any of the newer rounds like CM, Rugers, WSM, WSSM, Hamm’r, Legend, Valkyrie, being around are pretty slim. But the ‘06, 270, and 308 will be. Maybe it’s misplaced patriotism. Maybe it’s our inability to let go of the past for newer and better.
How many 30-06 rifles are there in the U.S.??
By what measure are we determining “King”?
How many 30-06 rifles are there in the U.S.??
By what measure are we determining “King”?
Varminterror
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^ I’m sure guys were saying that a hundred years ago when rounds started superseding the then-popular rounds like 45-70, 90, 110, 38-40, 25-20, 44-40... how’d that work out?
earlthegoat2
Member
I tend to think the OP is more referring to hunting rifles so some things to consider:
A lot of hunters use 30-06 and a lot of shooters use all the others. These days, there are more shooters than hunters and shooters generally shoot more than hunters.
I’m a shooter and a hunter and I will say I shoot my non hunting guns a lot more because I have more of them. I don’t have an 06 but I do have a .308 that is semi auto and as such I find I burn through more ammo with it. Not near as many 06 semis out there. Especially rifles made for high volume shooting with 20+ rnd mags. Same for a lot of different cartridges that aren’t 06 such as all the AR cartridges that have become so trendy and the growing number of 6.5CM AR10/LR308 rifles out there.
I would like to think that some other cartridge besides the ones that sell the most rifles and ammo is the one we hold closest to our heart and in that vein it is possible that 30-06 is king.
A lot of hunters use 30-06 and a lot of shooters use all the others. These days, there are more shooters than hunters and shooters generally shoot more than hunters.
I’m a shooter and a hunter and I will say I shoot my non hunting guns a lot more because I have more of them. I don’t have an 06 but I do have a .308 that is semi auto and as such I find I burn through more ammo with it. Not near as many 06 semis out there. Especially rifles made for high volume shooting with 20+ rnd mags. Same for a lot of different cartridges that aren’t 06 such as all the AR cartridges that have become so trendy and the growing number of 6.5CM AR10/LR308 rifles out there.
I would like to think that some other cartridge besides the ones that sell the most rifles and ammo is the one we hold closest to our heart and in that vein it is possible that 30-06 is king.
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