30-30 lever action vs. .357 lever action

[NWAttorney]

You pros out there,

I've heard that a .357 is just about as effective a round as a 30-30 when shot from a rifle barrel. Is this true? I know the muzzle velocities (both about 2,000 fps and bullet weights are similar, but the larger diameter of the .357 makes me think it would fall faster (drop more at 200 or 300 yards).

Obviously the cost of .357 (and 38 special for practice) is one reason to look into this as an alternative, as 30-30 ammo is pricey.

Any comments? Real life experience?

Thanks,

NWAttorney

 

[MTDrtBag]

After looking through my loading data I could find nothing that would support a .357 from a rifle to be comparable to a .30-30. In nearly all cases the .30-30 was any where from 300 to 500 fps faster than the .357 with comparable bullet weights. Only the 125 gr. bullet from the .357 would produce 2000 fps. This is not to say that the .357 MAY not be affective on whitetail deer at close range. The .30-30 will certainly shoot flatter and bullets for the .30 caliber are designed for hunting unlike alot of the bullets constructed for handguns that are desighned for either target shooting or self defense. Neither of these cartridges is a 200 or 300 yard cartridge, and I would be hesitant to take and animal at 50 yards with the .357 . I am sure there are lots of guys who have stories of killing animals at considerable distances with either of these cartridges, but I would not recommend it. We had a guy kill a grizzly sow up here with a .410 shot gun, however he probably wouldn't recommend it and the next time he goes out to investigate a disturbance in his chicken coop in the middle of the night I am sure that he will be better armed. If you are cowboy action shooting the .357 would be my choice, but for hunting the .30-30 would be the better choice. I used my 94 winchester to fill two of my whitetail tags this last year. Both animals were taken at about 100 yards with the bullet passing through both sides of the animal. Bang! Flopp..........and you can eat right up to the hole.

 

[gezzer]

I had a custom made 357 magnum 1892 Winchester made from a 32/20. I paid lots of money to have it converted. ( long before commercial 357’s) I shot several deer with it and became very discouraged with the caliber from a rifle. The 30/30 Kicks it's ass on game!!

With the new ammo available the 30/30 is no comparison to a handgun cartridge.

 

[razorburn]

Buffalo bore gets their 158 grain .357s going 2150 from a rifle.

 

[roscoe]

If you shoot Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap 125 grain ammo, it approaches 30-30 energies at the muzzle. However, the .357 bleeds off energy quicker and so starts to slow and drop much faster. They say the .357 is a 100 yard round, if you are talking about hunting. The 30-30 can double, or with the new Hornady LeverRevolution ammo, triple that range (or so I have heard).

From the Buffalo Bore website (considered reliable):

18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

 

[MTDrtBag]

I am sure with some of the new powders like Hodgdon Lil' Gun they can get higher velocities with lower pressures than ever before. I checked out the Buffalo Bore website. I see they claim 2150 fps with their 158 gr. bullet, but at $21 something for a box of 20 rounds why would you? And you have to mail order them to boot!

 

[roscoe]

They ain't lying. Check around to places like gunblast.com for reviews. One alternative is DoubleTap - they offer similar ammo at about $30 for 50.

 

[Colt46]

The .30-30 is a big game cartridge

The .357 is a self defense and small game propostition. Properly loaded it can do quite well out of a carbine. Just realize that it's not got the reach that the .30-30 has.

 

[Diamondback]

The .357 is a self defense and small game proposition. Properly loaded it can do quite well out of a carbine. Just realize that it's not got the reach that the .30-30 has.

Yup .......chamber a 'homebrew" or one of the "juiced up" Double Tap/CorBon/Buffalo Bore and the .357 out of a carbine is good to go on deer size game out to 100 yard, give or take. The 30-30 will get the job done out to 150 yards, give or take, and past 200 yards with the the new Hornady stuff.

I often hear people say "why shoot a pistol round out of a rifle....why not get
a 'real' rifle caliber ? "......because some folks are perfectly satisfied keeping their shots short range, and are adept at bullet placement.

Pick your caliber.......know it's limitations....and know yours.

- regards

 

[Bearhands]

I think Diamondback has hit the nail on the head in every way. One argument I might have: 30-30 ammo is NOT pricey. Commericial hunting loads are readily available from 9-15 bucks a box (20). 357 hunting loads will set you back more than that.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

Just remember though you have to be able to hit something at that distance in the first place!

 

[Old Time Hunter]

Last fall I purchased 170gr Cor-Lockt's .30-30's for 5.99 a box after rebate at Dunham's. Heck, even the local gas stations have .30-30's. 'Noth'n against the .357, makes a fine plink'n load but so does the .30-30 if you load it light. On the other hand, the Eskimo's up in Alaska have no problem tak'n seals, moose, or caribou with their .30-30's, just us "Great White Hunters" that feel the need to have bazooka's to hunt rabbits. The .30-30 is probably 80% of what is needed in the entire world, whereas the .357 is more like 30%.

 

[Z_Infidel]

Some good advice given so far. When I owned a .357 Mag lever gun I used it mostly around home for plinking and varmint control, and it excelled in that roll. It would also be very effective for home defense. In order for the .357 Mag to even approach .30-30 performance you will be spending much more for the ammo than for .30-30, and you will have also spent more for the gun assuming comparison between both new or both used. Plus, you still won't have the same power level beyond short range.

I enjoyed the .357 Mag levergun, but no longer have it. I still have my .30-30 rifles. I find it an ideal package for many situations.

 

[Brian Williams]

180gr JSP XPs are a great 100 yard deer gun. Around here that is the distance I see deer in the woods. I load these XPs with a bunch of Lil'Gun and they wake folks up at the range. They are not your typical 357 load and they make a Marlin 1894C rock, they are not like firing 22lr in my 39M, like shooting 38 specials are.

158gr LSWCGC and about 18gr of Lil'gun is a great load also. (start lower and work up to the load that works for you).

 

[sansone]

I load up .357 hard cast bullets with lil-gun(slow burning pistol powder) for my 1894c marlin. the carbine does wonders for the pistol cartridge and loves hot loads.. bullet BC is awful so 100yds max range for a good shot. the 30-30 is a better hunting cartridge but I chose the 1894c because it shares bullets with many of my pistols and reloads real easy because of the straight-walled case. the only loaded ammo I buy is rimfires

 

[Bud Tugly]

If your main purpose for buying the gun is to hunt deer, then the .30-.30 is clearly the better choice. Sure, you can get handloads and specialty shells that will allow the .357 to approach the performance of the .30-.30, and if that's what you want to do then fine. It can be fun to push a cartridge far beyond what it was designed for to see what it can do.

But if you just want to go to the sporting goods store, pick up a box of shells off the shelf, and go out and hunt deer, the .30-.30 is definitely superior.

 

[Fred Fuller]

At relatively close range, it won't make a lot of difference which round you choose. Getting out there a ways (beyond 100 yards) there's no question- the .30-30 has it all over pistol rounds. No surprise, the thuttythutty always was a rifle round, and acts like one.

After a lifetime of shooting various .30-30s, it took me exactly one range session to determine that i wanted absolutely nothing to do with a pistol caliber (in this case, a .44 Magnum) lever gun. However, the friend i sold it to still treasures it.

lpl/nc

 

[ravencon]

This isn't an either/or situation. A good alternative might be a lever action in .44 magnum. It depends on your intended use, which wasn't specified.

A .44 magnum/.44 special has good potential for both hunting and home defense.

 

[NWAttorney]

Thanks Everybody.

It seems like a 30-30 is definitely more powerful and more effective than a .357 out of a rifle barrel, at least after 100 or 150 yards. I had heard elsewhere that the were CLOSE, but not the same. My main concern was the drop after the first 100 yards or so, which MTDrtBag discussed.

As to the purpose, well there are a couple. (Primarily) I want a reasonably long-range gun that I really like (30-30), but have the interchangeability of ammo with a handgun (the same reason Sanson1 uses a .357).

And, as to the hunting, I could see buying exotic rounds in either for the limited hunting use, and it wouldn't really make a difference with one box of 20 or 25 .357 at $30, or a good box of 20 30-30s at $30; because you're just not going to use a lot of that stuff when you're hunting (one hopes). It is the practice with hundreds of regular rounds that runs up the bill.

I love the great feedback you all give to questions put out there like this one. I appreciate it.

NWAttorney.

 

[MrDig]

No experience hunting deer with a .357, that is not why I bought my Marlin 1894C. I bought it to have a small game/HD carbine to match my .357 Ruger GP 100. Like the idea that both shoot the same round and can do short to medium range varmint control.

 

[Z_Infidel]

And, as to the hunting, I could see buying exotic rounds in either for the limited hunting use, and it wouldn't really make a difference with one box of 20 or 25 .357 at $30, or a good box of 20 30-30s at $30; because you're just not going to use a lot of that stuff when you're hunting (one hopes). It is the practice with hundreds of regular rounds that runs up the bill.

You can buy quality .30-30 ammo for $10-$15 per box of 20. Not exactly cheap enough for plinking, but cheap enough to allow you to get plenty of practice plus have some fun at the range.

 

[115grfmj]

With commercially loaded ammo

I sight my 1894c in to hit +3" at 100yds, it doesnt cross the line of sight until 170yds, and doesn't come down to a 4" revolvers energy until 171yds. Most people say that you can use a .357 revolver on deer to 50yds, ......so what does this mean to you? For me I have no problem using on game out to 150yds, I have taken game with this round, and I can tell you performs all out of proportion to it's size. Are there better choices....sure....will it do the job.....sure(.300 mags don't killem any deader ). A previous poster nailed, know your limits, and the limits of you gear.

 

[roscoe]

Like I said, DoubleTap is $25-$30 for 50. That is on par with cheap 30-30, and much cheaper than expensive stuff like Hornady.

 

[Jim K]

There has been a tremendous expenditure of time and paper trying to "prove" that this or that pistol cartridge is as good as or better than a rifle round. I have even heard people claim that a .44 Magnum is more powerful than a .30-'06 or .300 WinMag. Just recently, I read that the .500 S&W was equal in power to the .50 BMG. What nonsense!

When I was a gunsmith, I had a guy bring in a 7mm Mauser, in very nice shape, that he wanted converted to .357 Magnum so he would have a really powerful rifle. I talked him out of the conversion (which I didn't think was feasible anyway), showing him that a 7x57 made a .357 look like a popgun and that what he read in a gunzine was ridiculous.

Jim

 

[MrDig]

BTW 30-30 ammo @ 11.99 per 20 = .60 cents per round not including Sales tax.
.357 @ 15.99 per 50 = .32 cents per round not including tax.
.357 @ 25.00 per 50 = .50 cents per round not including tax.
So for plinking and target shooting .357 is the clear winner on a price point comparison. I cannot tell you if reloading them is the same ratio per round.
The .357 gets even cheaper when you use .38 spc for plinking.