.30-30 or .44 mag lever action

[ECVMatt]

All bantering aside, I would go with the .30-30 and this bullet:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/54...nchester-170-grain-nosler-partition-box-of-20

you might look at review number 4 on the Midway site.

It was made with bears and large critters in mind. Light weight .44's are no good, if you choose the .44 use 300 grain hard cast bullet.

 

[Panzercat]

Bears at close range? Make physics work for you and not against you: 30-30 hard cast.

 

[ugaarguy]

I heard someone once say stick with the round the gun was made for. i.e. buying a rifle? Get a rifle round. Same with AR questions, get a .223 for example. 308 is for the M1.

You know Eugene Stoner designed the AR-10 in .308 before he designed the AR-15 right? You also know that it was the M14 that was designed for .308 Win / 7.62 NATO, and M1 Garands were designed for 30-06 right?

ARguy,
Perhaps you missed what I wrote and what every breathing human knows, that .30-30 is going to give you more at distance?

Range is only one part of versatility. Variety of bullet weights, constructions, and velocities at which they can be loaded contribute much more to versatility than range alone.

I'll assume this was a joke.

Why would it be a joke? Enlighten me; tell why using a light for caliber bullet to create a more apples to apples comparison is such a bad thing.

 

[DM~]

Why would it be a joke? Enlighten me; tell why using a light for caliber bullet to create a more apples to apples comparison is such a bad thing.

Because given similar construction and the same weight, SHORT bullets don't penetrate as deep as LONG bullets.

It's just NOT apples to apples IF you want = performance on tougher animals with both.

If you knew about bullet performance on big game, you'd also know why it sounds like a joke.

DM

 

[mac66]

I have both in rifles but my vote is for the 30-30.

 

[CraigC]

Comparing SD between the .30-30 and .44Mag is a little silly. Because the best bullets for the .30-30 HAVE to expand to be effective. Which alters the SD immediately. With the .44Mag and cast bullets, expansion is not needed or wanted. The SD remains constant.

....and no, before you say it, the standard pressure 405 gr. 45-70 is currently considered a piss poor choice against the big bears according to the study conducted many years ago by the US Forest Service in Alaska, http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

Its findings are flawed and they only used a 300gr JHP. It's the bullet tested that's piss poor. A useless number if considering a 420gr LBT load and NOT applicable.

 

[saturno_v]

Comparing SD between the .30-30 and .44Mag is a little silly. Because the best bullets for the .30-30 HAVE to expand to be effective. Which alters the SD immediately. With the .44Mag and cast bullets, expansion is not needed or wanted. The SD remains constant.

The 30-30 bullet in the example, if it is a controlled expansion one (or a Nosler partition) does not expand immediately and progressively as it travels through the target....and usually assumes a mushroom shape and its length is not shortened considerably.

 

[DM~]

The 30-30 bullet in the example, if it is a controlled expansion one (or a Nosler partition) does not expand immediately and progressively as it travels through the target....and usually assumes a mushroom shape and its length is not shortened considerably.

Exactly, and that's why they kill FASTER.

With good penetration, i'll take the expanding, deep penetrateing bullet EVERY time.

At least that has been MY experience, over my 25 years of hunting big game all over Alaska, includeing blk. and brown bear.

DM

 

[CraigC]

The 30-30 bullet in the example, if it is a controlled expansion one (or a Nosler partition) does not expand immediately and progressively as it travels through the target....and usually assumes a mushroom shape and its length is not shortened considerably.

The SD changes dramatically with the slightest expansion. Your 170gr expands to .32cal and it drops from .256 to .237. It expands to .40cal and it drops to a dismal .152. Whereas the hardcast 300gr .44 remains .232 all the way through whatever critter we're punching a hole through. The result? The .44 punches a deeper hole, almost guarantees an exit and is a much more consistently effective killer.

 

[jamesjames]

plinking & hunting

I have the best of both worlds: a pre-'64 Winnie 1894 in 30-30 and a Marlin 1894ss in .44mag. I have the Winnie because its an American classic. The fore-end is narrower than the Marlin and it feels great in the hand. The Marlin is no slouch in the ergonomics department, either. Both feel wonderful and at 6 lbs each, they carry by the balance point at the receiver like a dream.

I got the Marlin because i wanted more trigger time and could do more plinking with .44 mags (and it loves CCI .44 specials, +p hollowpoints, too). To sharpen rifle skills and get more range-time enjoyment, I'd go for the .44 magnum.

To have the closest thing that comes to an all-around hunting rifle, go with the venerable lever-action 30-30. The 30-30 cartridge is making a comeback among folks who are a little retro-, a little steam-punk. There's not a thing wrong with the 30-30 cartridge, except I don't want to plink with it.

 

[saturno_v]

The SD changes dramatically with the slightest expansion. Your 170gr expands to .32cal and it drops from .256 to .237. It expands to .40cal and it drops to a dismal .152. Whereas the hardcast 300gr .44 remains .232 all the way through whatever critter we're punching a hole through. The result? The .44 punches a deeper hole, almost guarantees an exit and is a much more consistently effective killer.

The SD changes but not in the "mathematical" way you assume.

A .30 cal bullet expanded to .40 cal where only the front end has expanded while the "tail" is still .30 cal has a different SD than a .40 cal bullet of the same weight.

 

[Owen Sparks]

If I thought I might have to stop a charging bear I would carry a .45-70. You can still hunt deer with it at reasonable ranges with lighter bullets, especially the excelent Hornady Flex-Tip.

 

[Alaska444]

The .44 isn't a shabby camp gun especially in rifle. I am planning on getting a Winchester Packer 94 from my wife's cousin. I contacted Tim at Buffalo Bore and asked if I can use the 305 gr Buffalo Bore in this rifle. His answer, YES.

3. Marlin 1894 18.5 inch----------------------1779 fps

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=49

Pushing a 300 gr bullet at nearly 1800 fps is in the territory of lighter load 45-70. I may get a 30-30 down the road, but for now, the .44 which I can carry in both pistol and rifle seems a good combination.

 

[Salmoneye]

Comparing SD between the .30-30 and .44Mag is a little silly. Because the best bullets for the .30-30 HAVE to expand to be effective. Which alters the SD immediately. With the .44Mag and cast bullets, expansion is not needed or wanted. The SD remains constant.

Finally, the correct answer...

 

[K1500]

Wow, lots of passion with this one. My vote is for either. Assuming you are not shooting at over 100 yards or so, I think either will work. I have hunted with both, and am fond of both.

I use an older Winchester M94 in .30-30 for the task you describe. I have thought about buying a trapper length .44 (and came really close but they were out of stock). The .30-30 can penetrate intermediate barriers a bit better. Sheet metal, armor, etc. Maybe that is not too important for hunting, but it could be for slef defense.