.30-30 Rolling Block?

[Jim Watson]

Note that Tark built his own out of chrome moly steel and beefed up in critical dimensions.
This is not Juan Valdez's Rolling Block.

7mm Mauser is probably the utter maximum for a Rolling Block due to smokeless pressures and rimless case. I think the design topped out in the No 5 sporting rifle in .30-40 Krag. Although there were some made in 8mm Lebel.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks guys!

I'm torn between this gun and a Pedersoli Sharps Business rifle in .45-70 Gov't. I'd still be using it for hogs but mainly informal target shooting and plinking.

After some research, it appears their is a device called the "Lee Loader" that cost something like $30 and comes with everything needed to reload one caliber. I am sure it's a slow affair, but I couldn't imagine shooting more than 1-200 rounds per month and I've got lots of spare time on my hands.

That could be my ticket to reloading afforable .45-70 cartridges.

Boys, this plot just got a whole lot thicker! !

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 45/70 and it is a well made and good shooting rifle. I reload for it with my RCBS and Lee dies.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Oh man... what a godawful predicament I've forced myself into...

How can I pick??

 

[R.W.Dale]

I have had both. If you aren't shooting a competition that mandates it or you aren't waxing nostalgic about Custer's last stand you will be happier and get more shooting per dollar with a 30-30

No matter how you slice it 45/70 will ALWAYS be a lot more expensive to shoot than 30wcf

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have had both. If you aren't shooting a competition that mandates it or you aren't waxing nostalgic about Custer's last stand you will be happier and get more shooting per dollar with a 30-30

No matter how you slice it 45/70 will ALWAYS be a lot more expensive to shoot than 30wcf

I see... but I do have a 300 yard rifle range nearby, and would like to "stretch it out" to that range.

What kind of sights would I need to get out that far with a .30-30? Is such an event even possible?

 

[R.W.Dale]

I see... but I do have a 300 yard rifle range nearby, and would like to "stretch it out" to that range.

What kind of sights would I need to get out that far with a .30-30? Is such an event even possible?

The same sights you'd use with a 45/70. You just won't need as much elevation

I shoot 300m all the time with my 30/30's

 

[BCRider]

The Lee Loader is the "Whack-A-Mole" loading tool. Lots of hammering to load up a box of ammo. And since it involves actually tapping the primer into place with that same hammer, rather gently I presume, setting off primers by accident isn't unheard of from the tales of "Whack-A-Mole" reloading I've read.

A better option would be the Lee hand loader. But best of all is the single stage breechlock reloading kit. The kit and a set of dies will set you back $200 and you can make a lot more ammo to a much higher standard and do it MUCH more quietly. And you're then set up for any other loading just by buying a set of dies.

It's not like you need a lot of room for this either. The whole Kit'n Kaboodle will easily fit in a medium size storage tote and slide into a spot in the closet or under the bed.

 

[Swampman]

I have had both. If you aren't shooting a competition that mandates it or you aren't waxing nostalgic about Custer's last stand you will be happier and get more shooting per dollar with a 30-30

No matter how you slice it 45/70 will ALWAYS be a lot more expensive to shoot than 30wcf

Not if you cast your own bullets.

In my experience, it's a lot easier to work up an accurate non gas checked load in a 45-70 than it is in a 30-30.

The cost of primers is going to be the same for either caliber, 45-70 uses more powder, but that's more than compensated for by not needing gas checks. 45-70 may use a lot more lead, but I've never had any problem obtaining all that I use for free from tire shops.

The OP says he's a hog hunter, if I were walking up hogs with a single shot rifle, I'd feel a lot more comfortable doing it with a 45-70 than a 30-30. I don't consider hogs to be particularly dangerous, but if I'm hunting afoot, I really like to get their feet pointed in any direction but "down" as quickly as possible.

If your main focus is putting holes in paper (and particularly if you don't intend to reload), the 30-30 is probably a better choice. If hunting is more important to you and you're willing to learn reloading and possibly casting, the 45-70 may be a better choice.

Neither round is particularly good at long range shooting, but at known distances with proper sights, either one is capable of performing a lot better than most people think.

You can get started in reloading and casting your own bullets fairly cheaply, just be advised that it can become both addictive and expensive!

www.midwayusa.com/product/588362/le...0-government-457-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose

 

[kBob]

Back about '76 I used the basic Lee Loader a lot for .45ACP and .38 Special. Nothing like sitting on the kitchen to garage steps with a plastic mallet and literally hammering out your own "new" ammo.

FOr some weird reason I never had a primer pop on the steps, but for some reason every time I help a buddy use his .45ACP tool in his basement (a great rarity in most of Florida, a basement is) I think we never hammered out 100 rounds with out a pop.

Though it cost a bit more Lee makes a "nut cracker type press used in the hands that I would get rather than the old hammer style if I knew then ( and it had been available then) what I know now.

-kBob

 

[GooseGestapo]

Lots of good information, bad information here.
The trajectory of the .30/30 isn't that bad.
+3" high at 100yds, zero ~170yds, -4" at 200yds.
200yds takes in about 98% of all hunting situations.
Most 30/30 bullets will expand nominally inside this range.
You'll enjoy your .30/30.
You can get an inexpensive arbor press from harbor freight and skip the plastic hammer with the "Lee Loader". Actually, many benchrest competitors load this way. I vote to "keep it simple" to start with. A pound of IMR3031, 100primers, 100Sierra 150grn ProHunters, and you will find out how accurate a .30/30 can shoot with fire formed, neck sized brass! (Hint, I've gotten 1-hole groups at 100yds with above mentioned components. Suggest 28.5grn+/-)

 

[R.W.Dale]

How do you figure casting makes 45/70 cheaper than 30/30?

I literally get nearly three 30/30 bullets from the same amount of lead it takes to cast ONE lightweight 45/70 bullet

Gas checks are nearly free I bought 1k of them in a custom size for $22

45/70's are NOT easier to find a load for as bores vary WILDLY from manufacturer to manufacture some so much so standard molds aren't big enough requiring a custom order. Whereas any $26 Lee 30 caliber mold will make bullets that will work fine in a single shot 30/30


Again there's no like scenario where 45/70 doesn't cost a LOT more to shoot.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Free lead from tire shops is a thing of the past. If you still get some you'd better enjoy it because I assure you it won't be around much longer.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

True, based on component volume, powder and lead, a 45/70 is more expensive to reload than a 30-30. But dang, dropping that big ol 45/70 cartridge into the chamber of my Sharps and closing the breech is part of the fun.
The Boom and black powder smoky goodness after is just the gravy on the biscuits...

 

[Panzerschwein]

Hmm... what a hard choice.

Truth be told, the Rolling Block in .30-30 would probably be more practical to me. I would still be reloading for it with the Lee loader tool, at least to start out. The cotton pickin' thing is only $27. If it turns out I don't like it, I'll sell it on ebay and get a different reloading setup. I am however, very space limited and don't have a proper garage to reload in, and my budget isn't super huge right now. I do have plenty of free time though, no kids and a steady job.

Does anyone know if the Pedersoli .30-30 Rolling Blocks are built on the small frames like the terribly ugly Uberti Rolling Blocks? If so, gross. I want a traditional look.

But... a Pedersoli Sharps Business rifle or Billy Dixon rifle... sweet child o' mine, lawdy knows I've always wanted a sharps. I know that .45-70 would cost more to reload, but it's not like I'd be putting hundreds or rounds downrange a month with the gun.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated guys. I am new to single shot rifles and certainly new to reloading!!

 

[R.W.Dale]

I say start with 30/30. It's a great introduction to handloading cartridge and if worst comes to worst you still have the plan B of $14 a box factory ammo. 45/70 will cost 3x that much.

From your end of the rifle they both do the exact same thing. Make a loud BANG sound when you pull the trigger and hopefully put a hole in something down range. The only real difference is cost and recoil. Both will kill what you might try to hunt equally dead.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I say start with 30/30. It's a great introduction to handloading cartridge and if worst comes to worst you still have the plan B of $14 a box factory ammo. 45/70 will cost 3x that much.

From your end of the rifle they both do the exact same thing. Make a loud BANG sound when you pull the trigger and hopefully put a hole in something down range. The only real difference is cost and recoil. Both will kill what you might try to hunt equally dead.

Okay! But will a .30-30 really go to 300 yards for target shooting? I know the .45-70 will easily go to 1000 yards with the right sights. What about the .30-30?

 

[R.W.Dale]

The 30/30 will outshoot 45/70 at range. Especially if higher BC bullets are used.

Back when it was introduced 30/30 was considered a vast improvement in terms of range over black powder big bore rounds like 30/30

 

[BSA1]

I'm torn between this gun and a Pedersoli Sharps Business rifle in .45-70 Gov't. I'd still be using it for hogs but mainly informal target shooting and plinking.

IMHO hog hunting changes your choices.

A Sharps is the 3rd worst choice as it is slow to reload and their is the possibility of accidental discharge if you forget to put the hammer on half-cock before closing the loading block.

The Rolling Block is a simpler to load and reload and is fairly quick to reload. The main thing that slows down speed of reloading is the fired cartridge must be removed by hand. This keeps it in 2nd place.

Hog hunting can offer quick and fast shooting. I know from experience that hogs can soak up a several shots that are less than perfectly placed. Quick follow-up shots can save a lot of trouble tracking a wounded hog.

So what is the 1st place choice?

The Trapdoor carbine. With it's short barrel it is quick and light enough to handle in thick cover. But what places it in 1st place is it's speed of reloading. When you open the breechblock it automatically ejects the fired cartridge. With practice by holding extra rounds between the fingers of the off hand it is easy to get off several aimed shots within a minute. The Trapdoor is strong enough to handle the 405 gr. cast lead bullet at 1250 fps.

Glad to help you make up your mind.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Here's some perspective for you. I shot these groups with a custom Agilent barreled Stevens 200 chambered for 7.62x39

30/30 is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39



If hogs are on the menu and you are concerned about followup do yourself a favor. Get a $300 used Marlin 336 as a companion. Because I promise after handling that long heavy exquisitely finished $1000 beauty you won't have any interest dragging it through the briars and bushes.

 

[Panzerschwein]

IMHO hog hunting changes your choices.

A Sharps is the 3rd worst choice as it is slow to reload and their is the possibility of accidental discharge if you forget to put the hammer on half-cock before closing the loading block.

The Rolling Block is a simpler to load and reload and is fairly quick to reload. The main thing that slows down speed of reloading is the fired cartridge must be removed by hand. This keeps it in 2nd place.

Hog hunting can offer quick and fast shooting. I know from experience that hogs can soak up a several shots that are less than perfectly placed. Quick follow-up shots can save a lot of trouble tracking a wounded hog.

So what is the 1st place choice?

The Trapdoor carbine. With it's short barrel it is quick and light enough to handle in thick cover. But what places it in 1st place is it's speed of reloading. When you open the breechblock it automatically ejects the fired cartridge. With practice by holding extra rounds between the fingers of the off hand it is easy to get off several aimed shots within a minute. The Trapdoor is strong enough to handle the 405 gr. cast lead bullet at 1250 fps.

Glad to help you make up your mind.

:{

PLEASE DON'T!!! Too many choices!!

Okay, so what I'm getting at is the .30-30 can actually be a better long range shooting cartridge? I plan to get a set of them fancy sights that go on the tang. It sure would be nice if I could push the .30-30 out to the 300 yard burm. I like all my rifles to go that far at a minimum.

I am going to probably contact Cabelas in Sidney, Nebraska and have them send that little Pedersoli down my way here in Kansas. It's probably a used gun, but if it's in good shape that won't bother me because it seems like a good price.

I just need to know if I'm making the right choice on this. I've long pined over a single-shot "old west" style rifle. I just need to know if .30-30 will do me good. I do want a "serious" rifle that is a capable one, not a pipsqueak.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Okay guys, I just contacted the Sidney NE Cabelas.

That online ad was from the past. The gun was sold long ago.

It sure isn't easy to find these Pedersoli guns, at least the specific models you're looking for anyway.

 

[Jim Watson]

From an earlier question, the Pedersoli Rolling Block .30-30 is listed at 8+ lbs so it is on the regular No 1 action, not the "Baby Rolling Block" seen in .22 Hornet and pistol calibers.

A Winchester High Wall would be superior to all earlier designs (and a lot of later ones.) Unfortunately, they don't offer it in .30-30.
.30-40 Krag would be a good round but not common or cheap in stores, pretty much a handloading proposition.

 

[BCRider]

As much as I love my single shot rifles if I were in a hunting situation with .30-30 ammo and where I might need a quicker second shot I think I'd be looking at a lever action Marlin 336, Win 94 or the ideal option a Savage 99 in .30-30. The Savage in connection with reloading my own ammo lets me use the higher BC spitzer bullets.

Keep in mind that even with factory .30-30 and the round nosed tube magazine friendly bullet noses that they'll easily reach out to 300 and punch through paper. And they'll do so with FAR less bullet drop than the .45-70 or my .38-55 talked about in previous posts. After all you're starting out at well over 2000fps where our cast loads are all under 1500fps. So don't think that they'll be falling in from space or anything silly like that. You'll easily get out to 300 just with the elevation adjustment range found on the Marbles sights. It's only if you opt for some cast lead shooting at the same sub 1500fps that some of us are using that you would need to worry about not enough elevation range in a Marbles.

 

[Panzerschwein]

As much as I love my single shot rifles if I were in a hunting situation with .30-30 ammo and where I might need a quicker second shot I think I'd be looking at a lever action Marlin 336, Win 94 or the ideal option a Savage 99 in .30-30. The Savage in connection with reloading my own ammo lets me use the higher BC spitzer bullets.

Keep in mind that even with factory .30-30 and the round nosed tube magazine friendly bullet noses that they'll easily reach out to 300 and punch through paper. And they'll do so with FAR less bullet drop than the .45-70 or my .38-55 talked about in previous posts. After all you're starting out at well over 2000fps where our cast loads are all under 1500fps. So don't think that they'll be falling in from space or anything silly like that. You'll easily get out to 300 just with the elevation adjustment range found on the Marbles sights. It's only if you opt for some cast lead shooting at the same sub 1500fps that some of us are using that you would need to worry about not enough elevation range in a Marbles.

I see. Thanks!

Yes, forget hunting. I've got a Mosin carbine for that. I think I'll be using this as a paper popper/plinker etc. A Pedersoli Sharps Business looks nice, but I think I'm zeroing in on a .30-30 of the rolling block type. '

Does anybody out there know where I can get a Pedersoli Rolling Block in .30-30 caliber? I so, I would be your friend for all of time!!