30-30 using Unique?

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243winxb:
Were are talking jacketed bullets, "Sierra 150gr. RN w/cannelure"
When dc fireman returns, we will know. Fine line between to slow and over pressure.
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Harley Quinn:
The idea of a quality shooting situation seems to be lost on many, cheap shooting just to make the rifle go boom

The 44-40 was one that could be shot from revolver and rifle, it had its place in time...Good for man hunting I guess???

Shooting targets, bullet just clears barrel
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have a difficult time discerning the point either of you are trying to make.

"Fine line between slow and over pressure."(?)

"....cheap shooting just to make the rifle go boom." (?)

If Unique will work safely with a 170 gr. cast bullet, I can assure you it work work fine 150 gr. jacketed.

35W
 
35 Whelen..
True I have been short on sentence...:D

I am still :confused: guess we will have to leave it alone...

You left off :confused: and:(

:)

Regards
 
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When a bullet takes the rifling, its compressed by the lands/rifling. A lead bullet will compress very easy, even if it has a gas check base. A jacketed bullet will increase pressure more than a lead bullet. Even more so when using a fast powder like Unique. Shape> Then you have the bearing surface of the bullet that is in contact with the rifling. More bearing surface, more pressure, more friction, more heat. :banghead:
 
When a bullet takes the rifling, its compressed by the lands/rifling.
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Actually it's more engraved than compressed. The only time a bullet would really be compressed is in the case of a bullet having a diameter larger than the groove diameter of the barrel from which it was fired. Such is the case with all three of my K-31's. The largest groove diameter of the three is .3075", the smallest .306" and some change, which means any .308" bullet fired out of any of them would be slightly compressed. But I load and shoot them just as I would any other rifle.
I just finished loading 100 rounds of 30-06 for our High Power match next weekend. The rifle (a 1903A3) has a barrel that slugs .300" across the lands and .308" across the grooves. The load I use consists a charge of 13.0 grs. of Red Dot behind a Lyman 314299 cast bullet. This%2
 
Unique and Jacketed Sierra 150gr. RN w/cannelure Not a good Idea.

Picked up a 1903 for $40 back in the day. Didn't shoot well with cast as the barrel was worn. New surplus GI barrels were $25, gun smith charged $5 to headspace it by running a reamer in to the chamber. Then it was a shooter with cast. Tried the Lyman cast loads with fast pistol powder, but the best ended up being a load with IMR 4895 173gr GC. A 1903 will spit in your face if you get a defective primer, wear safety glasses, always. Was fun shooting it for a while, but all guns get old soon or later. Used the same home cast 173gr Lead GC in 30WCF (30-30win), 308win, and another 30-06 Rem.rifle. Plus 30-30 contenders. Photo of bullets i have cast and loaded in the last 40+ years. The OP ask about a jacketed bullet,Sierra 150gr. RN w/cannelure
 Cast and Jacketed, big difference when loading with Unique powder. castbullets.jpg
 
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OK. Me, and my electricity are back, even if it's temporary.

The Marlin 1936, is indeed a micro grooved barrel, using the classic 'special smokeless steel'. I can't ever seem to find any cast bullets locally - in fact, I can barely find jacketed bullets, unless I go to a gun show (and there are two of those coming up next weekend).

I have really taken to loading for, and shooting, my lever guns - one a Marlin, the other a (new to me) Winchester AE94 Trapper; both are 30-30WIN.

I was using the Sierra 170gr FP bullets (In the 94). I don't hunt (yet), so my guns are strictly plinkers. I wasn't awfully impressed with the accuracy I was getting from the 94 using the 170's. I could get about 2-3" at 100 yds with three shots - but it wasn't consistent.

The Marlin will group two touching, with the 3rd about 1/2 to 1" off the other two - which was something I could live with for now.

My intention here, was to use the Unique pistol powder in a reduced powder puff load, primarily as a means for further testing of the 94 - as in, was I having a bad day, was it just not a good load for that rifle, or is there some other factor affecting the accuracy with this particular rifle?

I'm not overly concerned about overcharging the cases - I've been using the CHargemaster 1500 for about 6 months now, and though it's a little slower than the UPM, it's consistent, as in every charge is exactly the same, every single time - even after cross checking it occasionally against another digital scale.

Soooo... this brings me back to my original question -

Can it be done (safely)? And, where do I start (safely)?

I've been hanging around the H&R forum long enough to know the basics - working up, no distractions, etc. I just wanted to get some input regarding what has worked for people here in the past, as the most info I could find, only gave a starting range, not a starting point, and using a pistol powder, in a rifle cartridge is a fairly new idea to me - I haven't yet ventured beyond THR, or the manuals...

Thanks again!

-tc
 
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YES, it can be done safely. But again, lacketed hunting bullets are awfully expensive plinkers. Have yo uconsidered buying cast bullets? Here are some on GunBroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=213265850

$19.50 for 250 bullets ain't bad!

Another: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=213402063

And one more: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=213483019

For what you're paying for jacketed bullets, you could get set up to cast bullets out of plentiful wheelweights.

35W
 
dc.fireman
The grouping for the 336 is good, imho, especially if open sights at 100 yds.:)

The ideal of powder is sort of what I am talking about, but I needed to read closer to your considering use (because you had it and used for a 45 acp) and wanted to plink with the 30-30 and looking for some feedback to guide you to the Lyman manual that shoots lead...

I still contend the jacketed in 336 is iffy, and be careful :D It sounds like you are using the "common sense" 35W was mentioning...

I looked up a bunch of info regarding various pistol powders using in rifle, scenario is lead and cast your own as a view:rolleyes: Buying the package 35 W mentioned (cast bullets greased and ready) seems like the way to go...

It is ok in the Win to shoot them, but not in the Micro groved imho:) You could do it of course, clean a lot and keep the good sense going...

I don't shoot much lead anymore, the Glocks and my DE are jacketed bullets only... I did lead in the days of my 15-3 S&W... Unique and Bullseye being the powder used... They are pretty good for that application...
I had a TC in 30-30, shot it using 3031... 2400 is a good one for my 44 Mag used it only for years, now will try it for my 10' barrel 440 Corbon (DE) that and am going to try 4227 soon...

Good luck have fun... :)
 
That little bullet at 100 grain or 110 grain would be something I think would be more inline, because you are not pushing a very heavy bullet and it does not have much surface to surface situation, one to try out :)
 
Copy that. My other nagging question - Can I use the bullets for the .30 Cal M1 Carbine?
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Again, I refer you to the Cast Boolit Website.

There's a dizzying amount of information there. And most of those guys have been doing it for so long, they know the difference between BS/ Old Wives Tales and the truth.
35W
 
I went over to that site 35W...

It does have a lot of Q & A...But not much about Unique, 30-30s & shooting in micro groved barrels;)

I did a search, read a bunch :)

If plinking is all he wants to do then you have given him a lot of good info...For the Winchester rifle...;)

Regards
 
I've used the M1 carbine bullets in the .30-30 and in .308 Win, they work fine. Picking an "accurate for a specific rifle" bullet is semi-whimsical, so get a 100 and try the idea. They're cheap in bulk, so if it doesn't work out you aren't out a lot.

They stabilize just fine in the .30 cal M1 carbine barrel whick is nothing special.

Going to a really "heavy-for-cartridge" usage projectile is the risky direction, because a barrel may not have a fast enough twist to stabilize it. Going light on a projectile has less accuracy risks.
 
Harley said:

I went over to that site 35W...

It does have a lot of Q & A...But not much about Unique, 30-30s & shooting in micro groved barrels

I did a search, read a bunch

If plinking is all he wants to do then you have given him a lot of good info...For the Winchester rifle...
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Then allow me to be of assistance!

30-30 and Micro-Groove barrels:
Marlin 30-30 Micro-Groove Load
30-30 GC mold for micro-groove marlin
Cast boolits in micro groove


30-30 and Unique:
30-30 bullits
(Scroll down to post #4)
.30-.30 loads for cast

311041 and Unique - Thoughts and observations
30/30 load [again]


There's TONS more posts on both these subjects. I've worked with cast in the Micro-Groove very little, so I can't comment on it specifically, but it seems that bullets sized .002" to .003" seem to work best. This may be a problem with "ordered" bullets as they'll likely be sized .308" or .309".

35W

Edit- Found this article at Leverguns.com: 30-30 Varmint Loads. Scroll down and read under "light loads...for as far as it goes......" There he details a load using a Hornady .311" SWC designed for .32 caliber pistols over 7.0 grs. of Unique. Sounds like a perfect plinking/small game load and the .311" bullet should work well in the Micro-Groove barrel.
 
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I have a simple, fool-proof way to prevent double charges. Dump the powder, seat the bullet. One at a time.

I shoot cast in my 30-30 and have never even considered Unique. There are so many better powders for that caliber. You can down load H4895 safely with good accuracy if you want to plink or train beginners.
 
I have a simple, fool-proof way to prevent double charges. Dump the powder, seat the bullet. One at a time.
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Excellent idea charging the case then immediately seating the bullet. I shoot very reduced loads and cast in our local High Power matches. My method is to (I think I mentioned this in an earlier post)prime the cases then put them back in the tray base up. Then I turn them over as I charge each one. After they're all charged, I have 1/4" marked dowel with which I check the powder level of each case. THEN after seating the bullets I use a digital scale to weigh each cartridge as a final check.

I shoot cast in my 30-30 and have never even considered Unique. There are so many better powders for that caliber. You can down load H4895 safely with good accuracy if you want to plink or train beginners.
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Well "better" really is a relative term. I shoot in the neighborhood of 1500 cast bullets out of .30 caliber rifles per year. I've tried all kinds of powder and in my experience the best, at least for me, are pistol type powders such as Red Dot, Unique, AA#7, and 2400. I've used IMR-4198 and SR4759 quite a bit, but like the 4895's, they're more position sensitive and less efficient in that it takes quite a bit more powder to achieve the same velocities as can be had with the mentioned pistol powders.

35W
 
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I suppose if I was a hermit in Alaska AND had run out of all other options to have some ammo for my 30-30 AND my next supplies wouldn't be available until next year AND the only powder I had available was Unique, then probably I'd give it a try. Or if I just wanted to pretend I was a hermit in those conditions, I'd give it a try. No doubt it can be done safely enough if you pay close attention to what you're doing. And it will end up with a bullet going out the barrel which should do more damage than a big rock.

But assuming you don't face those limitations, the obvious question is why bother? Sure, you will save a little bit on powder costs and end up with a mild recoil load for a rifle. But there are better ways to save a couple pennies. Many have mentioned the 2400 option and that's definitely better than the Unique route. I personally haven't tried that, but it should work pretty good. My own personal experiences have been limited to H4895 on the fast burning low pressure rifle experiments. I feel pretty comfortable doing that and can reduce the loads a whole bunch if I want to save powder or get low recoil. I know 4198 also does that but I haven't Ithat myself.

I personally would pass on the Unique thing. But hey, someday if I found myself a hermit with no supplies, I'll be regretting the chance of getting some prior experience.
 
But assuming you don't face those limitations, the obvious question is why bother? Sure, you will save a little bit on powder costs and end up with a mild recoil load for a rifle. But there are better ways to save a couple pennies. Many have mentioned the 2400 option and that's definitely better than the Unique route. I personally haven't tried that, but it should work pretty good. My own personal experiences have been limited to H4895 on the fast burning low pressure rifle experiments. I feel pretty comfortable doing that and can reduce the loads a whole bunch if I want to save powder or get low recoil. I know 4198 also does that but I haven't Ithat myself.

I personally would pass on the Unique thing. But hey, someday if I found myself a hermit with no supplies, I'll be regretting the chance of getting some prior experience.
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Well....if you haven't tried Unique, how do you know 2400 is better? No offense, but how do you give advice on a subject with which you have no experience? (Unique/2400/4198 in a 30-30)
I've used all three in various .30 caliber rifles. 4198 I don't much care for unless I use a filler which is something of a headache and another subject entirely. Honestly, it's my experience that there's not a nickels worth of difference in Unique and 2400 for light cast loads. I will say if it's 1800-1900 fps loads you seek, then 2400 is the only choice between the two.
And I've shot a bunch of both in my .303's. Sometimes which I use boils down to which I have the most of. But that aside I choose Unique because it requires less of it than 2400 to achieve similar velocities.
And by the way, I "bother" with stuff like this because the older I get, the more I realize 1) it doesn't take a cannon to kill most game and 2) and most important, it doesn't take a bullet at 2000+ fps to poke a hole in a piece of paper at 100 yds. For over a year, I competed in local High Power matches with a load than didn't quite break 1100 fps. Managed an Expert classification with it too!
Regards,
35W
Expand your horizons!!!
 
Good link 35 W thanks...
I load the Lee 150gr RNFP sized to .310 with good results from a microgroove. I can load to 1300fps with Unique or 2300fps with RE-7 & beat the accuracy of factory ammo with either one.

I'm told that there are different flavors of .30-cal microgroove. My barrel has around a dozen lands.
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I did read some of them as I mentioned, and this was one, if you want 1300 out of 30-30 rifle seems the way to go... Be good for a close range small animal shot or plinking into paper...No specs on pressure or loading, guess you have to then refer to Lyman lead shooters bible...:D

Glad I read this and posted, am wiser on cast lead and 30-30...

Regards
 
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Glad you found it beneficial, Harley. I'd unhesitantly say most of those guys at that site are masters at the art of handloading as they take it much, much further than pulling loads out of a manual. And to top it all off, they're the most helpful, generous bunch of guys I've ever known....virtually speaking.;)
Regards,
35W
 
Imagine how much easier things would be if those who know nothing about what is being discussed didn't opine.

Unique is a dandy reduced load powder for the 30-30 and many other calibres. My favorite 30-30 load is 6.4 grains of Red Dot under a 165 grain cast bullet.( Velocity is 1040fps) Actually flake powders like Unique and Red Dot bulk large enough that double charges are very obvious if you shine a light into the charged cases. Cast bullets are cheap and a great deal of fun but good,safe, reduced loads with jacketed bullets require only a modicum of prudence and intelligence to assemble.
 
Stumper said:
Imagine how much easier things would be if those who know nothing about what is being discussed didn't opine.

Unique is a dandy reduced load powder for the 30-30 and many other calibres. My favorite 30-30 load is 6.4 grains of Red Dot under a 165 grain cast bullet.( Velocity is 1040fps) Actually flake powders like Unique and Red Dot bulk large enough that double charges are very obvious if you shine a light into the charged cases. Cast bullets are cheap and a great deal of fun but good,safe, reduced loads with jacketed bullets require only a modicum of prudence and intelligence to assemble.
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I guess I'll be trying two - 150RN, at 8.0gr.s, and looking for the 100gr. .30M1 Carbine bullets. Thanks all!
 
Imagine how much easier things would be if those who know nothing about what is being discussed didn't opine.

Unique is a dandy reduced load powder for the 30-30 and many other calibres. My favorite 30-30 load is 6.4 grains of Red Dot under a 165 grain cast bullet.( Velocity is 1040fps) Actually flake powders like Unique and Red Dot bulk large enough that double charges are very obvious if you shine a light into the charged cases. Cast bullets are cheap and a great deal of fun but good,safe, reduced loads with jacketed bullets require only a modicum of prudence and intelligence
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Ah, alas...a voice of reason and more importantly experience, not opinion.

35W
 
Imagine how much easier things would be if those who know nothing about what is being discussed didn't opine.

Unique is a dandy reduced load powder for the 30-30 and many other calibres. My favorite 30-30 load is 6.4 grains of Red Dot under a 165 grain cast bullet.( Velocity is 1040fps) Actually flake powders like Unique and Red Dot bulk large enough that double charges are very obvious if you shine a light into the charged cases. Cast bullets are cheap and a great deal of fun but good,safe, reduced loads with jacketed bullets require only a modicum of prudence and intelligence
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Exactly!!!
 
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