30-30 using Unique?

Status
Not open for further replies.
dc.fireman

dc.fireman

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
473
Location
Woodbridge, Va.
So - I've recently bought a lb. of Unique to try out on my .45ACP loads. The gun store guy knows I load for my 30-30, and mentioned it works well in this also. I've looked across the interwebs, and can only come up with one instance where someone was using my components:

WW 2x brass
Sierra 150gr. RN w/cannelure
Unique - the varying loads are saying between 8.0-10.0 gr.
WLR primers ( I also have Rem. 9.5's, and CCI LR Magnums, if I need them)

I'm planning on using this in my M94 Trapper, and my Marlin 1936 for plinking loads...

Lots of info for cast bullets - only one I could find for jacketed. Has anyone used this before? Where'd you start? Should I use the standard 2.550" COL?

I've been to the Alliant site, and checked their data - nothing for pistol powders in a 30-30...

Any ideas? Any loads you've used?
 
I've been reading the ABC's of Reloading, tonight and it says about Unique:

This is a flake powder with a great number of uses. It works well in many handgun loads and is considered one of the most accurate in 44 Magnum and 45 Colt. It is well adapted to cartridges as small as 25 ACP. It performs equally well in many shotshell loads.

No mention of any rifle loads.
 
You can get pistol powders to work in "smaller" case rifle cartridges, but you have to be really careful because there is lot's of space to double or even triple charge the loading. (With disasterous results). There is also enough airspace that powder orientation in the case becomes a significant variable.

As for published load data -

Lee #2 lists 17.8g of IMR4227 as a starting load for 150g jacketed projectile in 30/30 Win. That is the second slowest starting load in the relevant chart.
This is still a low density loading.
 
A load of 8 to 10 grains Unique with a 150 grain bullet is a pistol level load comparable to a .357 magnum load. Such loads have been used in .30-30 class rifles.

But with a .30-30 case it is easy to accidentally get a double or triple charge of Unique and not notice it.

Unique in a full rifle load (.30-30 28 to 30 grains) would be a KA-BOOM, because pistol powders burn a lot faster than rifle powders and the pressure spike would be higher and quicker than a rifle powder. Mistakes with pistol powder in a rifle case could be disastrous. Which is why some manuals do not list light loads of pistol powder for rifles.
 
Unique was so named as it is truly unique...can be used in almost anything...with reservations....in handguns, it is a great "medium" powder. In shotguns, it is a great "medium" powder. In rifles, it works great with lead bullets in reduced loads. I've used it in 30-30, 30-06, 308, 45-70 and 30-40 Krag, all with lead bullets and loads from the Lyman cast bullet handbook. I use it in 12 and 20 gauge with 1 1/4 oz loads in the 12, and with `1 ozers in the 20. In pistol/handgun I shoot it in 9mm, 38, 357, 44 spec, 44 mag, 45 colt 45 acp and love it. Probably shoot more Unique in handguns than any other powder, and I shoot a lot of 2400. Great groups in the cast bullet loads in the rifles, btw.
 
I never tried Unique! I always use Winchester 748 for my 30-30.

I did play with IMR 3031 in Thompson Contender 30-30 with Nosler Partitions and ballistic tip. I believe it was compressed charge, I would have to look through my stuff for recipe. Was awesome out of super 14"

I would not have thought of Unique for 30-30. :confused:

As Stated could be dangerous big BOOM! :what:
 
I've used 9.0gr Unique under a 165gr cast bullet with good results. Don't remember how fast it's running, got it from an article by Jim Taylor on Leverguns.com.
 
Any ideas? Any loads you've used?
Click to expand...

You're at the wrong site, bro. Go here: Cast Boolits. Ask and you'll be flooded with load suggestions. But bear in mind they'll likely be referring to loads using cast.

I've not used Unique in the 30-30, but I have used it on the 303 Brit. and 7.62x54r. I used around 12.0 grs. with a 208 gr. cast bullet. Personally I wouldn't waste a jacketed bullet on a reduced load like this. Either buy some cast bullets, or trade for some at the above site. Those guys over there are very generous.
If you can't find any, drop me a PM and I'll send you some 155 gr. cast flat point bullets. Extremely accurate in my Swis K-31 but actually designed for the 30-30 judging from their looks.

Oh, and don't underrate a good cast bullet. My daughter and I have killed somewhere around 8-10 deer with my cast bullets.
35W
 
I run about 10grs for my 170gr cast bullets in a Win '94. Fun load, but I'm gonna go with Trail Boss for better case capacity. Never tried jacketed bullets. Way too expensive to plink with in this caliber.
 
I've used 110g SP projectiles (M1 Carbine bulk component) with fast rifle powder loads to plink with the .30-30. The recoil is light enough and the projectiles are blunt/deformable enough that a magazine chain reaction is not likely. If it really worries you use a 110 HP (non-pointy).

110g projectile with 22g of IMR4227 gave me 1900 ft/sec in a 20" brl, which is around the same velocity as the M1 Carbine.

You can get the 110g jacketed .30 cal projectiles pretty cheap, but you're driving them fast enough that they won't hang up in the bore because of the reduced loading. The light projectiles along with the lower powder mass reduce the recoil.

Hodgdon lists similar loadings in #26 if you want to cross-check.
 
8-10 gr of Unique and a bunch of MBC lead bullets can lead to a full fun day of plinking with a 30-30. If you're a good shot, and local laws allow, it also makes a decent squirrel load. That's the load I used to teach my son how to shoot, too. No recoil, not much noise, and a heck of a lot of fun!

Like the others said BE CAREFUL!! It's very easy to load a double, and you don't want to do that!!
 
IMO 2400 works better in the 30-30 than Unique if you want to use a powder that fast. Using 2400 is along the lines of using IMR4227 or H4227 since both are considered a "Magnum" pistol powder.

BTW, way back in time 2400 was called "Hercules 2400 Rifle Powder" in one of the old load manuals I found at a gun show when most to all rifle bullets were still made of Lead.
 
I have loaded 8 grains of Unique with Speer 110 grain Plinkers in the 30-30. Like shooting a .22 (no recoil) and fun to shoot, but in reality, cheaper to shoot a .22 rimfire. I shoot these in a Marlin 336. Have shot hundreds of them, and never had one hang up in the barrel. I would not use Unique for full power loads or for heavy bullets (150 grain+), but with the 110 grain bullets it is definitely not a problem, nor is it hazardous.
 
Last edited:
:what:

I would not use it for your rifle... At first I thought you might be using it in a Thompson Contender, one shot handgun:confused:

It is a NOT, situation IMHO
:)
Regards
 
IMO 2400 works better in the 30-30 than Unique if you want to use a powder that fast. Using 2400 is along the lines of using IMR4227 or H4227 since both are considered a "Magnum" pistol powder.
Click to expand...

I won't dispute the "better" part of this, since I have no idea what anyone's intention is. For me, I use Unique and lead to plink with. I will, however, point out that all three of the powders you listed are quite a bit slower than Unique, falling just about midway between IMR-4198 and Unique on the burn chart. Yes, I know - burn charts are only useful for outhouse material.

Using 10 grains of Unique as a "Universal 30 cal load" as far as I know was first published by Rocky Raab. I know there are other light loads using pistol powders, but this one is useful for just about any 30 cal rifle.
 
I would not use it for your rifle... At first I thought you might be using it in a Thompson Contender, one shot handgun

It is a NOT, situation IMHO

Regards
Click to expand...

I'm confused. What does above post mean?
 
THERE IS NO " Universal .30 Load"

Sierra 150gr. RN w/cannelure
& Unique are not a good choice. You may lodge a bullet in a long rifle barrel or be over pressure. Stick to published reloading data from powder manufactures. As for Rocky Raab you need to read his article first, looks like a 100-grain Speer half-jacket or 100gr lead bullets to me. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_vGAYY3PfdYJ:www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Universal%252030.htm+Rocky+Raab+30-30+Unique+jacketed&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com THERE IS NO SAFE "Universal .30 Load" with a 150 gr jacketed bullet using Unique. IMO

 :uhoh: :)
 
Last edited:
Safe Published loading

170 gr. Rem. SPCL-Alliant 2400 powder @16.0gr Maximum. 2.500" OAL-Federal brass- Fed LR #210 primer-1500 fps- 34,700 copper units of pressure. Info from Alliant powder guide dated 1999. As always, reduce the load 10% and work up. :)
 
35 Whelen,
The post is about using Unique in a 30-30 rifle.

Don't do it... :)

When noticing post I thought the person might be talking about a TC handgun with a 14" barrel...So I decided to read...

A barrel that might be micro-groved (336) not good for lead hard cast...

Surly would not shoot a plated bullet in a micro-groved at such reduced velocity (pressure would be high with unique to get in moving) so overall, it is a "NOT" situation...

Regards
 
Last edited:
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!" :D Just kidding.....

THERE IS NO " Universal .30 Load"
Click to expand...

In some circles there is! Among cast bullet shooters 13.0 grs. of Red Dot in most any .30 caliber cartridge larger than the 7.62x39 is called "The Load". Likewise, 16.0 grs. of AL2400 is considered a "Universal Load" for any .30 caliber military cartridge except 7.62x39.

You correct in that, double charging is a real possibility. Every month I load at least 100 rounds of rifle ammunition with reduced charges for our local High Power match.(This month I'm loading 200) I've come up with some very simple and effective solutions do deal with the possibility of double charging.

First and foremost, after priming your cartridges, orient them base up in the loading tray. Then the procedure is: throw a powder charge, turn a case mouth up, dump the powder in, move the charged case to an empty tray. Repeat. This method accomplishes two tasks: 1) elminates the possibility of a double charge, and 2) allows the loader to make sure all cases have primers and that none of them were seated upside down.

Next, cut a piece of 1/4" dowel 4"-6" long. Drop it in a correctly charged case and mark the dowel at the case mouth with a Sharpie or other some such marker. After charging all your cases, drop the dowel in each one and make sure they're all charged identically.

I devised these methods because I have had exactly two double-charges over 25+ years of reloading. On my property I have the luxury of a 100 yd. range about 100' from my loading room. This permits me to run out to the shop, load 10 or so shells and shoot them in the matter a few minutes. The down side to this is sometimes I load and shoot when I really don't have time, so I rush.
Because of this I double charged a load in a No. 4 Enfield .303. The charge was supposed to be 12.0 grs. of Unique, with a 205 gr. cast bullet, but turned out to be 24.0 grs. No harm to the rifle at all and the only initial indication was sharply increased recoil. The bolt was quite difficult to open, but I got it and got the case out. No harm whatsover to the rifle.
Next was a modified 1903A3 Springfield. The charge was supposed to be 13.0 grs. of Red Dot, but I doubled it to 26.0. This time the bullet was a 173 gr cast. Again, no immediate indication except for increased recoil. The bolt was a little tough to open, though not as much so as with the Enfield. Again not one bit of damage to the rifle. In fact I pre-sighted it yesterday in preparation for next months match and she was shooting 1 1/2" groups.
It was at this point that I realized I needed some measure of precaution to prevent this, and I came up with the above methods.

There's no teacher like experience.

35W
 
35 Whelen...

No I have never tried it...Guess it is just an opinion...
Regards

Tomcat mentioned this;
********
I never tried Unique! I always use Winchester 748 for my 30-30.

I did play with IMR 3031 in Thompson Contender 30-30 with Nosler Partitions and ballistic tip. I believe it was compressed charge, I would have to look through my stuff for recipe. Was awesome out of super 14"

I would not have thought of Unique for 30-30. As Stated could be dangerous big BOOM!
*********
My thoughts also based on some experience with reloading...
 
Last edited:
Load Data for Unique

Happened to think of my new Lyman manual remembering that they use quite a lot of pistol powders in rifles. Checked the 30-30 and sure enough the loads for Unique are:
170 gr. Cast bullet: Starting load- 8.0 grs.; Max load- 10.6 grs.
173 gr. Cast bullet: Starting load- 7.0 grs.; Max load- 10.6 grs.

A few weeks ago I wanted fire-lap a tight apot out of a M1916 .308 barrel. I had some Hornady 190 gr. (jacketed) bullets I wanted to use up so selected them and impregnated them with lapping compound. All I wanted was for the bullet to clear the barrel. I started out with 7.0 +/- grs. of Bullseye and dropped back a grain at a time until I was using only about 4.0 grs. No problems at all! Reduced loads with jacketed is OK....just use common sense!

35W
 
Last edited:
We are talking jacketed bullets, "Sierra 150gr. RN w/cannelure" :cuss:
 When dc fireman returns, we will know. Fine line between to slow and over pressure.
 
Last edited:
The idea of a quality shooting situation seems to be lost on many, cheap shooting just to make the rifle go boom :confused:

The 44-40 was one that could be shot from revolver and rifle, it had its place in time...Good for man hunting I guess???

Shooting targets, bullet just clears barrel :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

coondogger
  • Locked
30-30 COL headache
Replies
16
Views
979
Bfh_auto
B
T
  • Locked
Light 30-30 Loads Revisited
Replies
3
Views
515
LotI
L
B
  • Locked
Unique for 30-06?
Replies
11
Views
3K
birddog
B
B
  • Locked
What part of the cannelure to seat to on 30-30?
Replies
10
Views
2K
x_wrench
x_wrench
T
  • Locked
Light 30-30 Loads
Replies
17
Views
2K
GRIZ22
G
Back
Top