30-30 vs 308 for deer

[jrdolall]

Youtube is great for learning how to fix something or to get an idea of how something works. It is like a hunting show in that people show what they want you to see rather than everything that happens. I personally think that hunting shows are the worst thing possible for young hunters to see because they get the impression that in 30 minutes they will se 20 deer and get at least a shot at a monster. They don't see the four days of hunting that went into that hunt and the hours spent in the stand trying to stay awake.

Zero both guns 1 inch high at 100 yards. Get within 100 yards of the deer and make a good shot and either will do the trick just as well. Some may be DRT and others may run 100 yards and the reason why is the subject of endless debate. Shoot at 300 yards and you better have a good idea of ballistics for the 30-30 because that bullet will be dropping like a rock! It will probably still kill a deer very dead but probably a foot or more of drop. The 308/30-06/270 will have significantly less drop at that distance.
I have never attempted to shoot a 30-30 at over 150 yards but I am sure there are people that do it all the time. Mine are zeroed in at 100 yards because that is about the maximum I ever shoot a deer. My Marlin 336 killed 4 deer last year (none by me) and has probably killed 50 since I got it. I rarely hunt with it anymore, not because it isn't a deer slaying machine, but because I just moved on to other calibers.

 

[matt35750]

At what velocities or distances?

150 grains, and standard FBI distance from gel block.

 

[Mr Woody]

30-30 works fine for deer. 308 has a bit more power so it might be better. 30-06 has more power yet. But then there is 7mm magnum. Surely that's enough but then I can assure you those Weatherby magnums have even more 'power'. Then comes alone the 338 Lapua to be king of the game killers. No, not yet we forgot 50BMG in a bolt rifle let's see you beat that. Wait, someone reading this just raised his hand saying he has more power.

Were on a merry go round with this which is better question. Back in the 50s and 60s my dad did his off season hunting with a .22 long rifle, we ate well year around. It's all about shot placement just like has been said before. 30-30 is capable for more than just small deer so don't sell it short, it's a good choice particularly if you like lever action rifles (I am guilty of this myself). It's biggest limiting factor is the sights on the gun that shoots it. .308 brings a better shooting system with the bolt gun and optics but I am sure most deer are taken within the ranges a 30-30 is capable of no matter the cartridge or gun.

 

[Zeke/PA]

You never have to feel undergunned with a .30-30 in the deer woods.
As many on this forum have stated. shot placement is far more important than the power of a "Humpty Dumpty" magnum.
My oldest Grandson shot his first four Whitetails with a shot each from a Marlin 336 in .30.30.

 

[eastbank]

this is one shot that will kill them right now with either caliber, but it requires a got rest with a standing still deer fairly close. this one was shot at 80yds with not a once of meat wasted, its not pretty to look at,but thats hunting. eastbank.

 

[Panfisher]

I was referring to shooting a deer with the .308 and spitzer hunter style bullets, but the same reaction goes mostly for any caliber with good bullets placed through the ribs lungs with no major bone hits. I have had deer run with holes from a 7Mag 139 grain Hornady bullet with lung chunks on the ground on the far side, and lung hanging out the exit hole. No question it was dead, it just didn't know it yet. I think adrenelaline plays a part, that particular deer I had jumped and it rang about 25 yards and stopped, so it was already primed to run, others that never knew I was around simply wobbled and dropped. Took a kid on a youth hunt this year, a single shot from a .223 Rem with a 60 grain Nosler Part, dropped it in its tracks. Bullet hit a little high and cut the decending aorta just under the spine, slight pause at the shot then dropped, there is no accountig for exactly what will happen. My wife shot her buck with a .243, shot perfectly placed, no more lungs, it ran about 50 yards, jumped the fence and collapsed. I know people who have loaded spitzer bullets in .30 30 ammo and put one in chamber and one in tubular mag, never seemed like a good idea or worth it to me. The .30-30 works so well with the bullets designed for it why mess with it. The .308 works great with bullets designed for it, however there is a much larger range of bullets to choose from that will work just fine from Nosler Ballistic Tips, or lighter weight standard bullets for more energy transfer, to Nosler Partitions, to monolithic bullets like Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX, all will take a deer if the most important rule is followed, put the bullet in the kill zone, physics will handle the rest. As we know the best laid plans of all hunters sometime fail and thats when a little woodscraft of tracking/trailing, understanding habits etc. come into play, especially if teaching you kids, let them know that you don't simply give up if a deer does fall within sight, if you draw blood or truly believe you made a hit, you are honor bound to make the best effort at recovery you are capable of.

 

[Agsalaska]

Inside about 90 yards I would rather have a 30-30. Outide of 90 yards I would rather have a .308

 

[Speedo66]

Haven't seen any mention of energy itself. The .308 is packing a lot more energy. Theoretically, that should tip the balance in it's favor.

But again, it all comes down to bullet placement. A .22 in the right place will drop a deer better than a .50BMG round in the wrong place.

 

[d2wing]

The 308 is better. I like my 30-30 for stalking in thick stuff. But for overall hunting where you have a variety of ranges the .308 is clearly superior. Anyone who would argue the 30-30 is better needs a lot more experience and study of ballistics. No sense arguing with ignorance. Recently a study was posted that dropping a deer quickly was all about shot placement. Caliber did not matter. Speed of death is related to energy and bullet performance. Videos and stories do not make a study.

 

[Jason_W]

It doesn't really take much to kill a deer. The most important factors are the limitations of the hunter and the physical limitations of the cartridge/weapon.

Many deer throughout history fell to smooth bore muzzleloaders firing inaccurate roundballs at plodding velocities. Before that, deer were dying to weak (by today's standards) long bows firing flint tipped arrows. Before that, nomadic people were flinging pointy sticks at game using atl'atls.

The point is that caliber war discussions are unfortunate in that they typically turn ugly and ultimately prove nothing. If you like a gun/cartridge and it's legal to use, go for it. Just know the weapon's maximum effective range and don't try to make it do something it was designed to do.

Both the .30-30 and the .308 Win. are capable of doing more than enough damage to vital tissue to cleanly kill (with appropriate shot placement) most game on the North American continent. They'll both inflict exponentially more damage to vital tissue than a broadhead. The .308, because it's a faster round, is easier to score hits with at longer ranges. That said, just because a round is accurate enough to hit a deer in the vitals at 250+ yards doesn't necessarily mean that the hunter is.

 

[stiab]

I also wonder although 30-30 and 308 use the same grain bullet, they are of a very different shape with the 30-30 having a much flatter head

Hey Matt, it sounds like you are thinking that all .30-30 bullets are shaped the same, and that all .308 are shaped alike, which is not the case. I have .308 factory rounds that are round nose, just like many .30-30 rounds are. I also have .308 in the same bullet weight that are pointed.

In Gander Mountain a couple days I checked out the .30-30 rounds, and they had bullet weights of 125, 150, 160, and 170. Within that they had bullet tips that were round nose, flat nose, flex tip, and hollowpoint. There is a lot of variety available from the factory for both calibers.

 

[Savage99]

As a rifleman, hunter and marksman the rifle itself is very important to me.

I still have and use the M70 I bought new in 1957.

I never have used a 30-30 nor even a 94 type rifle in my favorite schuetzen cartridge the 38-55 nor do I want to.

While some may want the 94 type for some task I don't favor rifles used in the cold that require a hammer to be drawn back.

I also favor handsome scoped rifles.

From the top: Brno 22F 8X57, Steyr 30-06, Savage 99F 358 Win.,
Steyr 358 Win!

 

[Geno]

Savage99:

Danged awesome photo!!! Thanks for sharing it.

Geno

 

[Bezoar]

alot of ammo loaded in .308 winchester is not inteded for deer. I can get LONG RANGE VARMINT AMMO and use it for deer, but it wont ahve the same effect as a 150 grain jsp from a 30-30 designed for 30-30 velocity.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I have shot tons of deer with the .30-30, the .308 and the .30-06. Usually, they all drop instantly -- but some will run. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to it, as far as the rifle used.

 

[9 fingers]

As a rifleman, hunter and marksman the rifle itself is very important to me.

I still have and use the M70 I bought new in 1957.

I never have used a 30-30 nor even a 94 type rifle in my favorite schuetzen cartridge the 38-55 nor do I want to.

While some may want the 94 type for some task I don't favor rifles used in the cold that require a hammer to be drawn back.

I also favor handsome scoped rifles.

From the top: Brno 22F 8X57, Steyr 30-06, Savage 99F 358 Win.,
Steyr 358 Win!

Savage 99, it is not every day that I see someone with a Brno.......AND a Styer (or 2) and a Savage 99. Nice assortment. I have one Brno, a 611 22 magnum semi auto....a superb gun. Nice to meet you.
9 fingers

 

[Steve S.]

I have killed deer with both calibers; both are brutal killers. None of the deer said, "Hey, I just got shot thru both lungs with a 30-30 (or a .308) and it didn't even hurt - I'm going to run away now and you won't find me!" Open their lungs with any caliber (shot placement) and they will go down - they are tough but not magic.

 

[vongh]

9 fingers bring up a valid point about pulling the hammer back in the cold. When I about 12 or 13 the first deer I killed was with a 30-30 but it was luck because when went pull the hammer back on my Glenfield 30-30 it slipped and the rifle went off without me pulling the trigger. While I would carry that same rifle still anytime, I prefer my teenage children to use a bolt action rifle mine is chambered in 30-06. Loaded with 150 grain speer spire soft points and IMR 4350.Those same years two of our hunting partners carried Ruger m77s in .308 calibers and I saw many deer go down instantly with those rifles using Remington Core-lokts.

 

[HOOfan_1]

In the first .30-30 video you posted, he shot the doe in the head. This is more about shot placement and less about the cartridge used.

 

[BigBore45]

i have shot deer and watched deer being shot with both. for my experience the 308 has done more drt hits (by just a few). but bullet placement and the deer itself play a bigger role in it. some deer get hit and give up some deer get hit and fight for life. transfer of energy in relation to drt hits is negligible to shot placement and bullet type. I know that i love a good serria game king 150-165 grain out of a 308 and a 130-150 grain RN soft point out of a 30-30. they are both great for deer and inside 200 yards there will be no noticeable difference. after 200 yards the 308 will do better in my experience and most of that is from the rainbow type trajectory and shot placement of the 30-30 being somewhat off.

 

[PistolPete45]

Ok I will say lever gun owners are better shots .

 

[Davek1977]

I couldn't (respectfully) disagree more, I have seen plenty of deer get shot right through the shoulder and run 100-200 yards or more,

In real life...or on youtube? Not all shoulder shots are created equal. The high shoulder shot I'm referring to is a shot that typically breaks both shoulders, incapacitating the deer. Most poeple consider the "shoulder shot" to actually be a shot to the pocket directly behind the front shoulder, which typically results in the heart, lungs, or both being taken out, which will indeed kill the deer, but won't necessarily incapacitate instantly. The benefit, IMO, of the high shoulder shot is, that if you shot just slightly high and miss the shoulder, you take out the spine, which also prevents the deer from going anywhere This is coming from real world experience, with a variety of calibers used successfully in a wide variety of conditions, both whitetail and mule deer. You break both front shoulders, and the deer typically isn't going anywhere, let alone alone hundreds of yards, and while higher power calibers may have more "dramatic" effect at times, this fact remains true regardless if we are talking 30-30 or 308, or for that matter, .243 or 7 Mag....Deer dont run with 2 broken shoulders.

 

[BigBore45]

It doesn't really take much to kill a deer. The most important factors are the limitations of the hunter and the physical limitations of the cartridge/weapon.

Many deer throughout history fell to smooth bore muzzleloaders firing inaccurate roundballs at plodding velocities. Before that, deer were dying to weak (by today's standards) long bows firing flint tipped arrows. Before that, nomadic people were flinging pointy sticks at game using atl'atls.

The point is that caliber war discussions are unfortunate in that they typically turn ugly and ultimately prove nothing. If you like a gun/cartridge and it's legal to use, go for it. Just know the weapon's maximum effective range and don't try to make it do something it was designed to do.

Both the .30-30 and the .308 Win. are capable of doing more than enough damage to vital tissue to cleanly kill (with appropriate shot placement) most game on the North American continent. They'll both inflict exponentially more damage to vital tissue than a broadhead. The .308, because it's a faster round, is easier to score hits with at longer ranges. That said, just because a round is accurate enough to hit a deer in the vitals at 250+ yards doesn't necessarily mean that the hunter is.

you would be surprised at the people i take to my range that cannot hit a 8" circle at 200 yds free hand. Or there rifle is not even sighted in properly, or they have a cheap scope on a 7mm rem mag that has a shot loose lens. Its a scary thought that they have been out hunting, but i take them out and teach as i can.

 

[matt35750]

Hey Matt, it sounds like you are thinking that all .30-30 bullets are shaped the same, and that all .308 are shaped alike, which is not the case. I have .308 factory rounds that are round nose, just like many .30-30 rounds are. I also have .308 in the same bullet weight that are pointed.

In Gander Mountain a couple days I checked out the .30-30 rounds, and they had bullet weights of 125, 150, 160, and 170. Within that they had bullet tips that were round nose, flat nose, flex tip, and hollowpoint. There is a lot of variety available from the factory for both calibers.

What brand 308 ammo has a flat nose like a 30-30? I haven't seen that around.

 

[Skogtroll]

.30-30 is almost legendary for this thought that it is the best for whitetail, even though I know a good many more to swear by .270 WSM. Asking people over the years the ultimate same conclusion came about, it is slower and may have more opportunity to impart kinetic energy to add to the same size hole either .308 Win, .30-'06, or .30-30 will make. It is part of the reason people still cling to the idea that .45 ACP is the best handgun cartridge. There are attempts to science the answer and naysayers will poo poo the science. I made a doe drop dead right where she was with .223 55 grain Winchester Silvertip, and the guy I went hunting with that day didn't think .223 wasn't legal to hunt deer in Louisiana; because it wasn't center fire.

Until some one is willing to chain down a variety of animals and shoot them in front of high-speed Doppler radar I imagine any guess at what's better is justifiable.