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30-30 vs. .308 out to 200 yards?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Archangel14, Dec 1, 2013.

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  1. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    Gents:

    Is there a significant difference between the effectiveness of the 30-30 and the .308 out to about 200 yards? I know there's many different size bullets and such, so let us assume a 170 grain for the 30-30 and, say, 147 grain for the .308. And I know that "placement is everything", but let us assume that the shooter is not Dead Eye Dick and can only hope to hit the upper torso of the target.

    Give me your thoughts please....Thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2013
  2. Radagast
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    Radagast Contributing Member

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    Both will work.
     
  3. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    Both would work, but depending on your zero, the .30-30 would have considerably more drop. Looking at Nikon's Spot-On software, the .30-30 shooting a 170 grain Nosler Partition would hit 8.3" low at 200 yards with 100 yard zero. A .308 shooting a 150 grain Nosler Partition would hit 3.6" low at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero.
     
  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    While both can work I'll take the 308 every time.

    13" of bullet drop and around 900 ft lbs of energy for a 30-30 with 4-6" groups vs 3"of bullet drop and around 2100 ft lbs of energy for a 308 with 2-3" groups.
     
  5. Radagast
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    Radagast Contributing Member

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    The bullet drop is true. With lever revolution rounds I would expect tighter groups for the .30-30, but OP did specify 170 grain, so good point.
    Against an unarmored thin skin target I would expect both rounds to be effective.
    Recoil and recovery time are different, for a person without much experience shooting the .30-30 will be more manageable, assuming lever action vs sporter weight bolt action.

    If OP is considering an AR10 or similar weapon then the semi will win every time.

    Platform and shooter will be more important than the cartridge in any adrenaline charged flight or fight scenario.
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    Lets focus on the ballistics and leave out the rest.
     
  7. LebbenB

    LebbenB Member

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    This says it all, right here. Assuming iron sights, at 200 yds, using a .308 would be as simple as aiming COM. With 30-30, you have to use some Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation. Simple is always better.
     
  8. hatt

    hatt member

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    If you're wanting to shoot to 200 yards don't sight in the .30-30 at 100 yards. Sight it in to take full advantage of the chosen bullet. .30-30 is an easy 200 yard deer cartridge.
     
  9. hatt

    hatt member

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    All that says to me is that misinformation is prevalent. Proper zero give the .30-30 200+ yard MPBR.
     
  10. krupparms

    krupparms Member

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    If both rifles were sighted in at 200', I don't think you would see much practical difference! If the rounds hit in about same spot. Say a heart /lung shot. I would say that the game would be dead by the time you got to it. Not much practical difference! JMO.
     
  11. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    Let me be more specific....my question left the arena open to too much interpretation. I know that a 30-30 is not on par with a .308. But is there a significant difference in what a 30-30 and a .308 would do to a living target at say 100 yards, and at 200 yards?
     
  12. krupparms

    krupparms Member

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    Not much if any!
     
  13. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    @ Post #11: Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
     
  14. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    A 30-30 zeroed at 200 is going to be 5" high at 100, about 3" high at 50 yards. Deer or any other target, human or not, rarely stand out in the open with a bullseye painted on the vitals. They are usually behind or in thick cover presenting a much smaller target. I don't want to have to remember to aim low at the ranges where 90+% of shots are taken just to be able to make easier hits at ranges I'll probably never shoot. Much easier to aim high on long shots than to remember to aim low on quick snap shots at closer range.

    My 308 loads will never be more than 1/2" above or below my line of sight from 50-130 yards and only about 3" low at 200. No guess work involved at 50-150 yards where almost all shots are realistically taken.

    If you hit a deer sized animal, including humans, no. The difference is that the 308 greatly increases the probability of a hit.
     
  15. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    I guess the 308 increasing the probability of a hit that would depend , in large measure, on the shooter's ability and familiarity with the firearm. I have an old Yugo M48 that I'm really good with out to about 100 yards. I can get 1.5-2 inch groups with iron sights. But I think it's because I am practiced with it. But out to 200, I'm 5-10 inches. More a result of the crappy sights than anything, I think.

    So what I'm taking away from this thread is that if I can put a 30-30 round on a living creature at 100-200 yards, it will likely have the same deadly effect as a 308 at such range, correct?
     
  16. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    I found a couple of bowling balls someone was throwing away. I took them to my buddies land. We set them up at 300 yards. He shot one with a 270 and a 150gr bullet. I shot it with my 30-30 and I can't remember if it was a 150gr or a 170gr bullet but I think it was a 170gr and when we looked at the chunks blown off the ball the craters were almost identicle.

    The 270 was a little bigger but not by much. I suspect a 30-30 at 200 yards would be a very deadly round. And you could use a scope with extra stadia lines to help with the aiming point.
     
  17. Malamute

    Malamute Member

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    Your initial post mentioned a 147 gr 308 bullet, which would be a full jacket military load. In that case, I'd choose the 30-30. I wouldn't use a full jacket bullet to hunt or shoot any living critter if I had a choice. If you mean 150 gr soft point hunting ammo, the 308 will have a more pronounced wounding effect. Having shot deer with a 30-30, they work, but with not nearly the tissue damage of a 30-06 (which is very close to a 308 in ballistic performance). My take on dressing out animals shot with those two rounds, and seeing the reaction of the animal from a hit is, something would have a better chance of surviving with a 30-30 hit than a 308 hunting load hit.

    With similar zero ranges (they DONT have to be at exactly the same zero range to compare) both will be reasonably easy to hit with out to 200 yards. If you want more precise hitting ability than just making a decent game shot on a deer etc, the 308 would be easier to achieve that with, being flatter shooting.
     
  18. palmrose2

    palmrose2 Member

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    Not with iron sights less than an inch above bore line. Sight height is as always, a big deal. It drives me crazy when people quote ballistics without quoting sight height. All the parameters are a big deal. Wind drift in a 10 mph cross wind may approach 10 " @ 200 yds.

    Your every day 30-30 170 gr flat nosed bullet leaving the muzzle @ 2,200 fps is IMHO, a sketchy load for your average hunter @ 200 yds.
     
  19. Nite Ryder

    Nite Ryder Member

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    At 200 hundred yards there is a big enough difference in these two cartridges that it would be wise to use the 308 unless you were shooting a tin cans and just wanted to hear something go bang. If you are serious about hitting a target or slowing down a threat at 200 yards, use a 308. If you want a fast handling gun at 75 yards use a 30-30 Winchester.
     
  20. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I know a 30-30 is capable at 200 yards with good ammunition but if I thought that 200 yard shots might be common I'd go with a 308.
     
  21. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    Is that because a 30-30 at 200 yards will do significantly less damage to a living creature than a .308 at that distance?
     
  22. Stophel

    Stophel Member

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    It's not a matter of terminal performance within normal ranges. It's all a matter of trajectory. ;) The .308 shoots flatter. That's it.
     
  23. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    There will be more tissue damage with the .308 assuming both are normal expanding hunting bullets. I don't recall the exact speeds that determine the amount of cavitation. The .308 shoots flatter, is more accurate and has more energy. But it has more recoil. In a light gun like a lever action some guys prefer the 30-30 for deer.
     
  24. WVRJ

    WVRJ Member

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    308 will just plain out perform the 30-30.Not even a good comparison.More accurate,flatter shooting,harder hitting.I have been hunting deer for about 40 years,and have been on more wounded deer chases from the 30-30 than any other round.30-30 will do the job,but it is often over estimated in what it can do.Thanks to me,you are now 2 cents richer.
     
  25. back40

    back40 Member

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    this could very well be due to poor shot placement, and shouldn't be taken as a fault of the cartridge itself. it has been said that 30-30 has taken more deer than any other cartridge, and has also been used with great success for black bear and moose.

    however, i do agree, that .308 will outperform it in most any situation.
     
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