.308, recoil and other calibers?

[J_McLeod]

I have a Savage Axis in .308 that I've enjoyed handloading for. Problem is that I have a small frame and after trying several powders and loads I've decided that it's just not fun to shoot. The reduced loads with 4895 were nice, but I don't want to be dependent on one powder, especially one I've only seen once since 2012.

The purpose of my rifle is hunting Kentucky whitetails, target shooting and hand loading for fun. Would I get a worthwhile reduction in recoil form down grading to 7mm08? What about 30/30? I have a .243, but it's my wife's. I could target shoot with the .243 and hunt with the .308, but I'd rather do both with the same rifle.

 

[Teachu2]

Have you tried sandbagging it on the bench?

 

[J_McLeod]

Have you tried sandbagging it on the bench?

I have a sandbag rest for it, if that's what you mean?

 

[slm9s]

Get some sr4759 and shoot some reduced loads in your 308 and enjoy your rifle again and save money from buying a different rifle.

 

[J_McLeod]

Get some sr4759 and shoot some reduced loads in your 308 and enjoy your rifle again and save money from buying a different rifle.

Checked my Lyman manual and the only data for that powder was for lead bullets. Haven't tried lead in rifle yet. Would Missouri bullet's #1 Whitetail work?

 

[phonejack]

Speer manual gives reduced loads with 4759. I use 170 gr. 30/30 bullets

 

[sixgunner455]

Use reduced loads and lighter bullets. A 130gr bullet going 2500fps is a whole different recoil feel vs a 180gr going the same velocity, or a 150gr going 2800fps. A 130gr SP should do fine on your whitetails. That, or swap it out for another .243.

 

[Reloadron]

Would I get a worthwhile reduction in recoil form down grading to 7mm08?

Not really. Not unless you went to a heavier rifle.

A Savage Axis weighs in at 6.5 Lbs. In the interest of keeping things simple a 308 Winchester loaded with a 150 gn bullet over 40.0 gn of IMR 4064 will give about 2400 FPS and the calculated FRE (Free Recoil Energy) will be right about 14.65 lb ft.

A 7mm-08 Remington using a 154 gn bullet loaded to 2400 FPS with 35.4 gn of IMR 4064 (a 4 gn heavier bullet) will have a FRE of about 14.02 lb ft. So all things considered the difference is negligible between the two cartridges in a same weight rifle pushing about the same weight bullets at the same velocity.

The "felt recoil" is a function of the rifle construction, things like the butt stock, any recoil pad, and other features. You may want to try some of the recoil pads out there to reduce the felt recoil.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[coondogger]

If you're hand loading you should certainly be able to reduce the load. But it's a .308 and no amount of finessing the powder is going to make it a .243. In a
semi-automatic rifle, .308 will generate less felt recoil. But a Savage Axis is a bolt action and the recoil is not absorbed by anything other than your shoulder.
I have a Marlin Lever action in .30-.30; barely any felt recoil. And it's a great
deer rifle.

 

[J_McLeod]

I have a Marlin Lever action in .30-.30; barely any felt recoil. And it's a great
deer rifle.

I never would have considered a 30-30 until I saw a Marlin for $370 at Academy this morning. Looked like a nice handy carbine too. Interesting thought.

 

[ThomasT]

I am surprised nobody has jumped in and said you are wrong that the 308 has no recoil. They sure did me that way.

I had a Remington carbine with a 20" barrel and the diamond on top of the wrist and I found out after I sold it that it was a sorta collectable rifle. Oh well, like you I didn't like shooting it. It had more recoil than my 30-06. I think the faster powders used in the 308 increased the recoil. My plan was to use military loads for practice and save the hunting loads for hunting. They didn't shoot to the same POI and the military loads were brutal. And I shoot BP rifles with heavy loads and brass buttplates and they didn't hurt like that little rifle did.

Anyhow you can go to the Hodgdon site and they have reduced recoil loads listed using 4895 powder. IMR or Hodgdon brand will both work. You can start with a 65% reduced load with any bullet 4895 is used for.

I would like to have another 308 and I would load 150gr 30-30 bullets to about 24-2500 fps. That shouldn't be too bad to shoot. I beleive most of the 130gr bullets were designed to be used in specialty pistols like the TC Encore and lower velocities so should work well with a reduced 308 load.

I have a 7-08 remington model 7 with 18" barrel and walnut stock. It is light weight and with 140gr bullets its not bad to shoot at all. I also loaded 120gr Sierra bullets in a reduced load for a 15 year old girl on a youth hunt. It kicks like a 243 and she killed 3 deer in two days with it. She is small at 5'2" and never complained about recoil.

 

[dprice3844444]

put a pachmayer decellerator pad on it and a gentry custom muzzle brake
http://www.gentrycustom.com/muzzle-brake
http://www.amazon.com/Pachmayr-Savage-Synthetic-Decelerator-Recoil/dp/B000PWBPTS

 

[illinoisburt]

There is nothing magical about the recoil. The axis is kicking you because it is light. Take some advice from the shotgun crowd -- add some weight. The rifle has a hollow stock, and without sights or ammo weighs a little under 6-1/2 pounds. Take off the recoil pad and add one to two pounds of lead shot double bagged in ziplock freezer bags. Add some filler material around the bag so it doesn't move around in the stock. An 8 pound rifle will have fully 25% less free recoil and feel substantially better on your shoulder.

Not sure how far you are downloading. Suppressor shooters love using trailboss for subsonic loads that have virtually no recoil. 10.5 to 12 grains under any standard 150 to 180 grain bullet is about as light shooting a 308 as you will find. If instead you mean dropping a couple hundred fps, starting loads of 4046, 4320, 4895 and 3031 are all fairly mild. I have seen 4064 and 3031 regularly stocked throughout the shortage and should be available locally.

 

[stringnut]

Rifle fit is very important in mitigating recoil. To long of a stock will beat the snot out of you. My light loaded 30/06 (150 gr at 2700) is very uncomfortable for the wife. Rifle weighs around 8.5 lbs. She shoots her 308 Remingto 700 youth model with the same bullet at the same speed and can tolerate it much better. This isn't to say a 308 has no recoil, but, sometimes things can be to make recoil more tolerable. Also practice can help build tolerance to recoil. When I shot a lot I could shoot 50 plus from my 30/06. Now around 20 is enough. The wife's favorite deer rifle is her 250 Savage model 99. That really is a light kicking combo.

 

[Art Eatman]

20 grains of 2400 and any old lightweight bullet for plinking. Maybe 16 to 18 grains with lead gas checks. Five grains of pistol powder and a 00 ball and you have a squirrel load.

Endless possibilities.

 

[Geno]

dprice3844444 nailed the correct answer in post #12. The recoil pad, and a brake.

I have a Weatherby Mark V, chambered in .300 Win Mag. After 12 neurosurgeries on my neck, I needed to tone the recoil back. I upgraded the cheap synthetic stock to a Bell & Carlson Medalist, and next took it to William's Gun Sight and had a Guide Series muzzle brake installed. I am shooting 165 grain Hornady SuperFormace GMXs out of it, and it has the equated perceived recoil of my .243 Win. Those projectiles exit the muzzle in the neighborhood of 3,280 FPS, well over what a .308 produces in perceived recoil.

The problem is, it was not cheap. The stock cost me in the range of $299.00, and the brake cost me in the range of $200.00. If that combined modification can tame a .300 Win Mag, it durned sure will tame a .308 Win.

Good shooting!

Geno

 

[Delmar]

If you really like the rifle and caliber, I would second the motion on installing a muzzle brake. My daughter in law has a Weatherby MKV chambered in 30-378 and with the muzzle brake, it kicks less than my Remington target rifle in 308. The only downside might be in the hunting field without ear protection-its going to be noisier.

 

[Reloadron]

For what it's worth this months American Rifleman magazine has suggestions for reducing felt recoil. Many of the suggestions run with what has been mentioned and a few more.

Ron

 

[MAKster]

Try the reduced power loads like Federal Fusion Lite. A dramatic reduction in recoil.

 

[TIMC]

Look into changing the stock. I have several rifles in .308; while most are very comfortable to shoot I have one that is a shoulder thumper. Try one of the Boyds thumbhole stocks, I put one on a Savage Hog Hunter and it is easy on the shoulder and nice to shoot.

 

[CB900F]

J McLeod;

All the correct answers have already been given. Shooting equal bullet weights at equal velocities results in the same recoil energy regardless of bullet diameter. Felt recoil is another matter and can be mitigated by recoil pads & muzzle brakes. However, stock design and fit can influence felt recoil to a very great degree. There are too many options in pads, brakes, and stocks to cover, especially for the .308.

As you stated, another option is to go to another caliber. If that's the route you choose to go, I'd suggest taking a good long look at the 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser. A Tikka T3 Hunter would be an excellent platform for the round. Due to the superior sectional density and ballistic coefficients of the 6.5 bullets, the round kills all out of proportion to it's diameter. It's well known for excellent accuracy and (relatively) mild recoil. Or, to put it another way, I hunt elk every year with mine and don't feel under-gunned at all.
We've been known to harvest some good-sized elk here in Montana.

900F

 

[jmr40]

I could target shoot with the .243 and hunt with the .308, but I'd rather do both with the same rifle.

If you're never hunting anything larger than deer a 243 is as much rifle as you'll ever need. With today's better bullets it is darn near perfect for any deer, at any reasonable range. And acceptable, but borderline for game up to elk.

There isn't enough difference in 308 and 7-08 with regards to recoil or performance on game to matter. A 260 or any other of the 6.5mm's is certainly a good option and splits the difference between 308 and 243, but not worth the hassle of finding ammo for a casual shooter. A great choice for the enthusiast and hand loader.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

As far as 6.5 Swede ammunition availability goes, I've never had a problem getting components. Also, whenever I've bothered to look, I see it on the shelf at at least one large sporting goods store in the area. Not always the same store, but available somewhere nonetheless. That may be a function of it's relative non-popularity, and that's a good thing in this case. In central Outer Montana the supposed shortage of Swede ammo is a myth.

900F

 

[Sunray]

Change the stock if you have one of the synthetics. However, as mentioned a 6.5 lb. .308 is going to come back. A lighter bullet will help too.
"...use military loads for practice..." You need to practice with the ammo you intend using.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

To keep the same caliber use the 125gr Sierra pro-hunter bullets. Very easy on the shoulder.

To change rifle caliber go 7mm-08 all the way. Shoot a 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip pushed to 2800fps. It will be deadly on deer and easy on the shoulder.