.308 Winchester - PCL507 - faster powder

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Boris Barowski

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Hello everyone.

I'm looking for some loading advice for my 308 Winchester.
The rifle is a Remington 700 VSF, 26" heavy barrel, 1-12" twist.

I currently use 167gn Lapua scenars, remington cases, Fed LR primer with Vihta N150.
This load works pretty well out to 600 meters, which is the maximum I can shoot at the range.

Now, since I live in the Federated States of Communist Belgium :)mad:), powder supply has been erratic and price increases frequent. Currently the price is about 65 euro per kg (92 dollars per kg), and I need to drive about 100 miles to go get it, because they won't ship.

So I found an alternative. Some people at the range now use PCL 507 from PB Clermont for .308, which has its factory in Belgium, which helps keep supply steady and prices low.

This means I would like to develop a new load for my rifle, keeping bullet and brass the same (I have considerable stock of these), and maintaining the same power to reach out to 600m I have with N150.

Yet the PCL 507 seems a lot faster than the N150 I'm used too. Will this powder be too fast for what I'm trying to do? Will it work but not be optimal (not taking advantage of the longer barrel)?

A comparison of burn rates can be found at http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp
Check around 172 for PCL

The reloading manual for PCL is rudimentary to non-existent.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance,
Boris Barowski
 
Definitely faster than N150, but listed in between two powders, H4895 & IMR 4895, that work very well in .308. Of course, how it does in the real world may be different.
 
I found this different Powder burn chart on page 2 of the vihta reloading manual ( http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/esitteet/VihtavuoriInternationalReloguide2009.pdf ), which lists 507 quite a bit faster than H4895 and IMR 4895.

IMR & Hodgon seem to be about equal in that aspect, as well as the minimum loads on the Hodgdon website. Are they?

If it is a lot faster, what effects will this have in velocity and pressure curve? How do I take maximum advantage of the 26" barrel I have? And according to Vihta, 507 is about on par with H322. Anyone a good experience with that fast a powder in .308 Winchester?
 
If it in more in line with H322, it probably is a bit faster than ideal for .308. Speer #13 shows some loads in .308 with 110 & 125/130 Gr bullets, but nothing heavier.
 
I've been doing some more digging and calling around, and I've come to the conclusion that all burn charts are seriously wrong. I've gotten my hands on a PCL reloading table (basic but valid and official information from the manufacturer) thanks to a friendly national distributor. Loads for 507 are about on par with N140, and I'll be developing a load based on that info, keeping a considerable safety margin in mind.

For future reference, should anyone ever need a PCL reloading table, PM me and I'll get it to you :)
 
I've been loading for 308 for a while and tried some of the faster powders. Accurate arms 2015 was one it's about the some as 322. I used the max 40.0 grains, this gave me a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps average. I don't think that is going to give you the umph you want for 600 mtrs. At the moment I've got 4 308's to load for, but on is a Savage FPC bolt gun. The others are all auto loaders and I need to use certain burn rates in them. I hope the info on 322 will help you make some safe loads to try.
 
Ok Boris, I am also a citizen of near-communist Belgium and Yes I have gotten hold of some PCL 507 (no other available) i have something of a load datasheet but only for use with Norma 150 and 168 gr FMJ, RWS 5341 primer; it states 46.02 (really, 46.02 to be precise!) for the 150 gr FMJ and 43 for the 168 gr FMJ. Although the 507 powder is stated by PB Clermont as the ideal stuff for reloading 308 the datasheet continues with data for using PCL 516 and 511 for heavier bullets. Where does that leave me with 180gr HPBT Scierra? I hope Your data is more complete and maybe someone can help us out. The link www.ajcpcl-ballistics.be does not open, it is sometimes referred to in literature on PB Clermont products. I have emailed Clermont to obtain some data. Anyone else using PCL 507?
 
Pcl 511

Thanks Kernel, but 511 was not available. Belgium's production of firearms may be world-reknown but at the coast (Flanders) the choice of reloading equipment and supplies is close to nothing:mad:. PCL 507 was obtained from the local gunclub after a 1 month wait (can You imagine the factory is only 100 miles away?). Aparently most of the PB Clermont production is destined for export. I seem stuck with my 180 gr Scierra PHBT, maybe in Belgium they can only be used in a slingshot (308);)? I have data from an old PRB-sheet on 150gr and 168 gr. I may have to resort to remote-firing (use of a benchvise) the old Remington 798 and prudently charge a startload of 40 gr. if I can believe a German fellow i called; He uses Quickload Reloader Software. It should fill the case 87.7% and produce 56500 psi. I experienced extreme barrel heat after just 2 rounds fired of Remington 180 gr factory ammo. Does anyone know the loaddata on Core-Lokt PRC308WC? It gives Mirage all-over the barrel after 2 rounds for at least 90 sec. and difficult opening of the bolt. I know the barrel on the 798 is rather thin......:what: Maybe Boris Barowski has more info?
 
Corusan,

With 180 gr bullet I would advise you reduce that 40 gr number by 5% and work up in increments of 0.4 grains. That would give you the following loadings: 38.0, 38.4, 38.8, 39.2, 39.6, 40.0, 40.4, 40.8, 41.2, 41.6, 42.0.

Load at least three rounds at each weight, shoot three shot groups starting with the lowest charge and working up to the highest, looking for excessive pressure signs. Having a chronograph at this point would be indispensable.

Once you see excessive pressure signs STOP shooting. Go no further. Call the charge that is TWO steps lower the maximum do-not-exceed-weight. For example: if you see pressure signs at 40.4 grains, then make 39.6 your maximum. Pull the bullets and dump the powder from any unused cartridges, those components can be reused.

Now the real fun begins. Go back and work up loads again. This time with emphasis on accuracy. Do not exceed the previously established maximum. You may be surprised to find that your best accuracy is with a load that is several grains below your maximum. Maximum velocity should NOT be the ultimate goal. Safety and accuracy at long range is the goal.
 
Yep, Kernel. Got that. I was at the range today and pressure signs (around the Fed 210primer) started at 41.6gr of charge in my never loaded before Lapua cases. Accuracy, recoil de luxe, etc... was achieved with the 40.4gr charge. This all corresponds nicely with what You described. A chronograph is something hard to come by but I'll try in Holland. At the gunclub it's mainly shooting armysurplus so nobody cares. I'll keep 40.8gr as a maximum. Thanks!
 
Chronograph

Ok Kernel, Ordering a chronograph from the US of A: I will have a close look at the Midway webshop, I will probably start drooling:uhoh:. Let me assure You that ordering something from the US and receiving it in the EU means a long wait and a lot of money paid at custom for importduties:banghead:. Certainly for electronics with microprocessors not made in the EU. Thanks!
 
Chronograph

Aha, the answer might be in Dzermania:eek: I will look overthere. Meanwhile I'll probably save lots of euro's that will not end in Greece's bottomless pit. Grundlich as Dzermans are, a chronograph could be just their style. Thanks a lot for the info.
 
Hey, sorry for the late reply, I was abroad :)

7.62 X 51 N. / 308 WIN

150 grains FMJ 507 46,2 2,980
150 grains FMJ 518 48,6 3,155
150 grains HPBT 516 45,5 2,957
155 grains PM 507 46,2 2,980
155 grains HPBT 516 45 2,922
168 grains FMJ 507 43 2,780
168 grains FMJ 516 46.3 3
168 grains FMJ 511 47,8 3,100
168 grains FMJ 518 48 3,116
180 grains SP 511 45 2,910
185 grains SP 516 44.4 2,870
185 grains FMJ 511 44.8 2,900
190 grains FMJ 511 45 2,910
200 grains FMJ 516 42.4 2,750
200 grains FMJ 511 42.4 2,750
220 grains FMJ 516 40.1 2,600
220 grains FMJ 511 40.9 2,650

that is all the data I have (underlined equals magnum primer apparently)

always nice to see a fellow belgian here, where do you shoot ? Coppens?
 
Coppens

Hoi, Boris Barowski, yes indeed I shoot at Coppens' place where I am a member since he started back in the eighties:D. Paul is on holiday now so his place is closed:mad: but I also shoot in Ostend although I prefer to shoot in Reimerswaal, like last monday, but that facility is only available once a month and means a 70 miles ride. Several people told me on monday that it would be better to use magnumprimers like CCI250 for reloading .308? I use federal 210 since that is what was available. What do You think?:confused:
 
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