32 S&W Long adventures

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I am recovering from oral surgery, and cannot do anything that is exercise for 4 more days, but I can run my lathe, pull a trigger, and post on this forum.

I went to the range and recorded this data three weeks ago
Colt New Police 32 S&W Long mfg 1907, 1.3X Bushnell Phantom Magnum scope
27 ounces + ammo as tested
At 50 feet 4.2" 6 shot group [ 2.2" for the last 5 shots]
85 gr Hornady .312" JHP, 1.3" OAL, upside down 308 Lee rifle factory crimp, 14 gr LIL'GUN

14 gr.: 1285, 1341, 1413, 1275 fps
13 gr.: 1246, 1317, 1228 fps
12 gr.: 1322, 1243, 1149 fps

14 gr Quickload predicts 7.3" barrel 1700 fps 29kpsi
13 gr Quickload predicts 7.3" barrel 1540 fps 23kpsi
14 gr Quickload predicts 7.3" barrel 1388 fps 18kpsi
Obviously a flaming muzzle fireball error

Here is a boring 2 or 3 minute video I made a month ago on how I crimp the ammo upside down in a 308 crimp die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE2aVfWJIKc

I fixed another Colt 32 S&W Long last night by using a boring bar [made from a twist drill] to cut the 11 degree forcing cone in the blob of TIG weld added to the breech.
It has a 4" barrel, and I test fired it today. It only weighs 18.5 ounces and it kicks with the 14 gr load.

There seems to be a pattern:
I just make up loads using all kinds of bullets and powder on 100 year old 32 S&W Longs until I blow out the forcing cone.
Then I get the cone welded up and fixed.
Then I shoot a load that kicks hard, but would not blow out the cone.
I think the loads with LONGSHOT split cylinders, Unique blew out forcing cones and made cases stick, but LIL'GUN and 800X seem to just make lots of recoil.
The cone is also much stronger, being thicker and made from drill rod.

What does it all mean?
Those revolvers kick hard with that LIL'GUN load and severe crimp.

 

[henry-ctc]

I think it means very much... The weak point of those revolvers is the forcing cone AND that no one should do it at home.

Anyway....Can we all know wich was your load of Unique with the 85 grains Hornady JHP, wich I guess is xtp, that craked the forcing cones?

I don´t pretend to try it, but that said, I´m interested.....

 

[Certaindeaf]

Heal up quick. lol

 

[Clark]

Now that I know to inspect the forcing cone with every shot, maybe I can take better data. [I don't know how much Unique it took]

Of course, now that I know the 32 S&W cartridge is too long to just work up loads in fast powder until the case sticks, we may never know.

800X and LIL'GUN are the answer for 85 gr.

I may try H110/W296 as well for 110 gr when I work up that bullet.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Do you spin a pinwheel Vegas style?. no.. not a pinfire. Anyway, I think you'd make a fair neighbor. Continue.

 

[evan price]

Rock on, Clark.

In well-made guns the 32 Long can perform as well as the 32 H&R Mag. Think the early 38-44 Heavy Duty and the development of 357 Magnum from hot 38 specials.

 

[Old Fuff]

Ah... I don't suppose this will get me anywhere, but anyway....

Have you considered saving a lot of time, trouble and work by buying a .327 Magnum that's made to withstand these kind of loads, rather then beating up some poor old Colt's made over a century ago?

 

[R.W.Dale]

You know Clark, me and you have butted heads in the past (I'm formerly krochus). But I have to give you props for developing a degree of safety into what you do and figuring out ways to compile data that's somewhat useful even if only for academic use.

But I still scratch my head and ask "WHY?" No matter how much you hot rod a cartridge there's always any number of more powerful rounds that do what they do from the factory.

I think a wholly more interesting endeavour is not "how fast can I make a 32 long shoot" but rather how WELL can I make an old 32 colt shoot?

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[Old Fuff]

Think the early 38-44 Heavy Duty and the development of 357 Magnum from hot 38 specials.

Ya, lets think about that.

By chambering the .38 Special in an N-frame platform they were able to safely increase the load (and pressure) in the basic cartridge.

Then when they developed what became the .357 Magnum the cylinders were made from a different alloy steel, and put through a double-heat treating process so they could withstand the elevated pressure of the Magnum cartridge.

They didn't decide to develop the .357 in a pre 1919 K-Frame Military & Police revolver that had a cylinder that wasn't heat treated at all.

I also like the .32 S&W Long, and in a top-quality revolver would not hesitate to up the load to .32 H&R Magnum levels (which for a Magnum are modest) but I wouldn't remotely considering going higher into the .327 Magnum range.

 

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
After I read this:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!msg/rec.guns/S_dalM1NJe0/cBSU4bR2jz8J
I then saw revolvers in a different light.
The star extractor of many revolvers, extracts 6 cartridges at once with finger tip force, making sticky cases problematic.
In 2004, 12 years after he wrote that post, I recruited John to help prove all the load books were wrong about the CZ52 being stronger than the Tokarev.
Still it haunts me why I did not figure that out [that sticky cases drive SAAMI registration pressures of revolvers] myself. I had all the clues. The 9mm test loads I did when I started handloading showed signs in the rim and sides that huge forces were involved in extraction.

The things that typically stop me in a load work up in a revolver:
1) The cylinder splits and breaks the top strap
2) The cylinder splits
3) The break top latch stretches making the action sloppy.
4) The frame-bolt-cylinder fit gets beat up making the cylinder rotation at firing to be sloppy.
5) The cases stick.
6) The forcing cone blows out.

I had been experimenting with S&W revolvers, and they shoot loose. Not always. I have an old 25-2 that has seen a lot of hot loads, but still has one chamber that is tight.
Then ~ 8 years ago I got 5 Colt Police Positives for destructive test. The design where the trigger pushes on the hand that pushes on the ejector & ratchet that rotates the cylinder that pushes against the bolt that pushes against the frame that captures the trigger pin that pushes on the trigger. This loop of force causes the cylinder to lock up tight when the trigger is pulled.

This great design shows up after 1907 in the Police Positive 32 S&W Long.
Not only is the inside diameter of the chamber only .340", but the walls to the outside are .070" and the wall between are .058".
Scaling off 460 Rowland revolver cylinder wall stress, the old Colt 32 S&W Long cylinders should then be good for 58,000 c.u.p.
So in the Colt 32 S&W Long, I saw a revolver that would not shoot loose, and the cylinder was going to be impossible to split with slow powder before the cases stuck.
But the forcing cone was not going to co operate with my plans.
So I have to TIG weld on thicker forcing cones made of drill rod.

 

[Kernel]

Note to self: Never buy a used revolver from Clark.

 

[res7s]

Clark, I hope you get well soon. I recently had abdominal reconstruction, and they are saying it will be six weeks before I can get around good, and up to a year before I fully recover. Good luck, and try to do something for both of us. Going stir crazy in GA. lol
Jim