.32acp vs. .380acp

[56hawk]

"Highly rated" by whom?

Way to go off topic. I don't feel like arguing about FMJ vs HP right now. But do tell, what ammo do you use to compare the power of the 32 to the 380?

 

[Drail]

.380 - big poodles. .32 - small poodles and rodents.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I've got both .32s and .380s (P32, P3AT, and TCP.)

I use FMJs in all three. And yes all three work well.

Few more bullets in the .32 and bit more power in the .380.

Neither of them is a 9mm or .357 but they do make good hideout guns.

Deaf

 

[Byrd666]

One more for the Kel-Tec. P3AT, is awesome. Normally carry a CZ 83 in. 380, but would not consider it to be a pocket pistol.

 

[481]

"Highly rated" by whom? The selling industry and their magazine flacks?

If one is going to use a .32 or .380, I would not use hollow points. If they expand, they do not have nearly enough penetration. Expansion takes energy and also impedes penetration.

Look at the FBI Quantico Report on Wounding Ballistics (google it). It recommends a minimum of 12-14" penetration. Now look at Winchester's site on Ranger ammo penetration
http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf
If a .380 expands, penetration is less than 8 inches. If it does not expand, they show 15" penetration. Why spend the money for premium ammo if expansion means inadequate penetration?

My .32 and .380 are loaded with FMJ. YMMV

Ken

This is my thinking with the "mouse guns", too.

From 9mm on up, its JHPs.

 

[wnycollector]

My father-in-law is fond of reminding me that "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian" when it comes to self defense. I have settled upon .380. I carry a Ruger LCP in my pocket or a Beretta 84B IWB. I carry Buffalo Bore's 100gr hard cast in my Beretta and Magtech 95gr FMJ in the LCP. I shot the BB 100gr ammo over my chronograph from my Beretta and got a nice average of 1187FPS/313lbs of energy. .380's can get the job done with proper shot placement, which requires lots of range time for the carrier.

 

[kokapelli]

All this stuff about velocity and energy in a 380 is a waste of time. The only thing that counts is how deep the bullet penetrates and can you put it where it counts.

 

[Lee D]

with all the newer .380 pistols out there nowadays it seems that its easier to walk in a lgs and buy .380 ammo. ive bought 2 LCPs and a 238 in the past year and they all have been very reliable, but there is definitely much more felt recoil in the little Ruger....and the 238s sights make it a much easier pistol to shoot accurately. the groups i got with mine suprised the heck out of me.

as for the Berettas, wasnt it only the carbon steel ones that were experiencing the cracked frames?

 

[chicharrones]

My wife has a Taurus TCP732 that she loves and I like. I'm pondering getting a 738 for myself (or maybe a 732, just for common ammo). The trigger is smooth, not too heavy, and the gun is accurate. Made in USA helps.

I have a TCP732 as well. Compared to a .380 ACP TCP or LCP, the 732 is downright fun enough to shoot like a plinking pistol.

I even modded a magazine to take 7 rounds of .32 ACP in my TCP. It is a neat little pistola, indeed.

 

[chicharrones]

If you pick and choose what ammo you are comparing you can come up with whatever numbers you want. However comparing the two highest rated self defense rounds:

Federal Hydra-Shok 32ACP 123 ft-lbs, 380ACP 200 ft-lbs
Speer Gold Dot 32ACP 123 ft-lbs, 380ACP 216 ft-lbs

That puts the 32ACP at between 62% and 57% of the 380ACP. Close enough to half for me.

Not disputing the percentages, but those numbers seem to be out of longer barrels than LCP size mouse gun barrels.

EDIT: The links below show numbers from mouseguns.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

 

[kokapelli]

Not disputing the percentages, but those numbers seem to be out of longer barrels than LCP size mouse gun barrels.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

In the tests he clearly states the tests are done with 2.7" barreled KelTec pistols.

 

[sidheshooter]

The Seecamp is a fine piece of workmanship, but it is a blowback action which produces a great deal of felt recoil and not much fun to shoot.

Most of the current pocket pistols now are locked breach action that really reduces felt recoil a lot which makes them much more pleasant to shoot when compared to a locked breach action like the Seecamp, NAA Guardian and the Micro Desert Eagle.

I agree that, all else being equal, blowback=more felt energy to the shooter.

That said, the seecamp has a delayed blowback design (with expansion of the case into the chamber absorbing *some* of the energy). I don't really find the seecamp to be any more punishing than, say, my Sig P238 was. Both are fun little guns; both tear up my trigger finger in short order if I stay at it too long.

Of course, the 380 is more powerful, but also a lot bigger when compared to the seecamp. In all, my choice is the seecamp-again, any bigger and may as well just go IWB. Frankly, a 3" J-frame with a Barami grip and someone's "FBI" load will beat either pocket gun for raw power; it just boils down to choices. More choices is always better, too, can't have enough carry guns.

OMMV.

 

[kokapelli]

I agree that, all else being equal, blowback=more felt energy to the shooter.

That said, the seecamp has a delayed blowback design (with expansion of the case into the chamber absorbing *some* of the energy). I don't really find the seecamp to be any more punishing than, say, my Sig P238 was. Both are fun little guns; both tear up my trigger finger in short order if I stay at it too long.

Of course, the 380 is more powerful, but also a lot bigger when compared to the seecamp. In all, my choice is the seecamp-again, any bigger and may as well just go IWB. Frankly, a 3" J-frame with a Barami grip and someone's "FBI" load will beat either pocket gun for raw power; it just boils down to choices. More choices is always better, too, can't have enough carry guns.

OMMV.

Really! The Seecamp I shot was nowhere near as soft shooting as the P238!

I can shoot the P238 all day but the Seecamp, no way.

 

[chicharrones]

In the tests he clearly states the tests are done with 2.7" barreled KelTec pistols.

Yes, GoldenLoki tested with mouseguns. I was referring to the data I quoted above my text. Yet, I worded it unclearly.

 

[chicharrones]

More choices is always better, too, can't have enough carry guns.

I agree.

 

[dirtengineer]

Having owned both a Kel-Tec P32 and now a ruger LCP, I can say that the .380 is better in my opinion. The tradeoff for a more potency is one round - the two firearms are nearly identical in size. .380 is a little bit cheaper (although I roll my own exclusively at this point), and I also found that .32 had the occasional hang up due to the rim style on the cartridge.

 

[orionengnr]

I have owned four Kel-Tecs--a P32, two P3ATs (one each first and second Gen) and a P11. I bought all within a fairly short period of time, shortly after getting my CHL, and during my Search For The Ultimate Carry Pistol/Revolver.

I imagine if you did a search for my user id and "Kel-Tec" you could read some of my prior posts. But to make a long story short, I spent a lot of time on several K-T owner boards, a lot more time learning to F&B, a lot of money on various ammo types, and more money on new mags, etc., plus lots of time swapping out free parts supplied by Kel-Tec.

I cannot disparage K-T's Customer Support--they were great. However, the end result was that although I was able to significantly improve most of them, I ended up with zero pistols that were reliable enough to carry...and each was eventually sold at a loss with full disclosure.

Actually, I gave one away, to a friend who thought he could fix it. He has a 4'9", 90 lb wife who is very recoil shy, and the P32 was perfect for her...if he could actually get it to work reliably. Honestly, I doubt that either he or she has fired it since then...and it's been five or so years.

What was the most rewarding, though, was when I bought an LCP, and it would feed all of those ammo types that neither P3AT would, even after all that work and all those parts. Just to make it somewhat apples-to-apples, I have owned two LCPs as well as two P3ATs. Both LCPs worked from Round One, and continue to do so, to this day (a friend owns one, and I the other)...instark contrast to the two P3ATs. Anecdotal, yes...but the sample size (for me) was adequate to draw my conclusions.

As far as power goes...if you shoot a P32 and an LCP/P3AT back-to-back, and then go back and reacquaint yourself with Newton's Third Law, that should make the decision a simple one.

I still own the LCP, but carry it very infrequently.

I also own a Kahr PM9, which is only a bit larger/heavier, but the 9mm +P+ cartridge is a good bit more powerful than the .380. However, even with the more powerful rounds, the PM9 is easier to shoot than the LCP. Those few ounces and the better sights on the PM9 make all the difference.

"They" say that in most cases where a handgun is used for self defense, no shots are fired. If that's true, then most of the time, caliber doesn't matter although a big, bright shinny .45 would probably be more intimidating than the barely visible P32 ;-)

Hmmmm..by that premise, I could carry a plastic cap gun and "probably" be A-OK under most any circumstances. It is possible that most home fires don't require the Fire Department to be called, and perhaps most auto accidents do not result in air bag deployment or an ambulance depolyed, but as someone once said...it's not the odds, it's the stakes.

I don't carry a handgun (or home insurance, or motorcycle/car insurance, or own fire extinguishers/smoke detectors, etc, etc, ...) for best-case scenarios.

 

[jackblack86]

own p32 and p11 both exceptional values wife decided she wanted the p32 so I bought me bodyguard 380 even know there not range guns I find the price of 380 allows me to practice more.

 

[jimbo555]

32 over 22,380 over 32,9mm over 380,45 over 9mm.

 

[kokapelli]

32 over 22,380 over 32,9mm over 380,45 over 9mm.

Yeah and 50 cal over 45 and shotgun over 50 cal and sub machinegun over shotgun and 20mm cannon over sub machinegun.

I thought this thread was about 32 vs 380!

 

[Kachok]

380 anyday over the 32, that said I would love a pocket pistol in 9mm.

 

[R.W.Dale]

For me both are FMJ only proposals and as such I differ to the faster followup shots and extra rounds you get with a 32







posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

 

[rskent]

The little Beretta Tomcat is a neat little gun. I have had mine for a long time. It’s a good little shooter.
I don’t carry it very often anymore, but every now and then…

 

[heeler]

I own two LCP's and carry it more than any other pistol.
That being said I also own a P32 and like it very much.
It is stone reliable and the recoil is so slight one can stay on target very easily.
I bought 500 rounds of Fiocchi fmj from Aim Surplus for $10.95 a box.
Pistol has never once malfunctioned.

 

[mdauben]

For me both are FMJ only proposals and as such I differ to the faster followup shots and extra rounds you get with a 32

Not sure about the .32 but I was looking at some .380 gel tests of a several different brands of ammo recently. While the JPH did come up short on penetration (~10 inches) the FMJ definitely over penetrated at 24+ inches (the tester ran out of gel and it ended up in the backing material). I was leaning towards using FMJ for .380 but this has me rethinking the choice.