338-06 or 338 Win Mag

[AK Gun Man 88]

Looking for y'alls opinions on the following.

Looking to have a custom barrel built for my TC Encore. It will be 20", Muzzle Braked, Heavy Contour. I'm selling my bolt 338 Win Mag to fund this project. I plan for this rifle to be my all around Alaska Hunting Rifle.

Question is which caliber? 338-06 or 338 Win Mag

I already am set up for 338 Win Mag reloading. However, I can always sell the 338wm dies with the rifle and buy new dies for 338-06.

My biggest reason for 338-06 is that is non-belted and less likely to get hung up on the extractor (especially during a bear hunt where reloading would be critical)

My biggest reason for 338 Win Mag is that I already have everything to reload this caliber.

Opinions? Thank you.

 

[hardluk1]

20" barrel is to short for the 338 win mag. Maybe the 338 RCM or the 338 Federal would be a better cartidge. Ether cartidge can match or excede what the long mags can do out of a short barrel with less powder and muzzle blast. The 338-06 would be very close to ether the 338 fed or 338rcm. The short cartidges whould still be more effective as a reloader and not enough difference to matter between them. Besides dies are cheap. All can push a 210gr bullet at 2700fps+ . The RCM is still the best of the 3.

 

[jmr40]

20" in a 338 mag is fine, lots of Alaskan guides have theirs cut down that short for chasing grizz into the thick brush. The lost velocity is only a factor on the long 300-400 yard shots. You'll still have more velocity from a 20" 338 mag. than from the others with a 24" barrel. It leaves the 338 Fed in its dust. But in a single shot break action I'd think 22-24" would be short enough. You'll end up with about the same overall length as a bolt gun with an 18- 20" barrel. I'd be more concerned about muzzle blast than lost bullet speed.

You can hand load a 338-06 and 338 RCM to almost the same speeds. From a 24" barrel 2900 fps is possible with 200's and Varget in my 338-06. I've not pushed 225's past 2650 in mine, but hear 2700 fps is possible. That is within 50-75 fps of the magnum. But if you want to shoot heavier bullets none of the other 338's can come close.

To me the 338-06's biggest advantage is mag capacity. At closer ranges the extra speed of the magnum is not that much of an advantage, but being able to load 5+1 instead of 3+1 might be. In theory the non-belted case should feed more reliably as well. In a single shot I don't see it being that much of an advantage.

In your case I'd probably stick with the magnum. Mag capacity and feeding from a magazine is not a concern a single shot rifle. You hand load and can always load the magnum down to 338-06 levels. You'll save some money too.

 

[BruceB]

I agree 100% with jmr40.

The .338 Winchester is a well-balanced, very effective cartridge, and you are already set up to reload it. Stick with it and don't look back.

I have two .338 rifles on hand, and the cartridge has served me admirably.

 

[eldon519]

I would fully expect you to be more knowledgeable given that you live in Alaska, but why do you want a single-shot for Alaska where the game you chase (or even the local fauna you might not be after) can kill you? In a situation where something like a moose or bear might charge me, I'd feel a lot better with follow-up shots in the mag. Why not just spend the money on a little bit of upgrading to your existing Win Mag?

 

[Hopkins]

Belted magnums were developed to chamber reliably when a conventional cartridge head spacing from the cartridge shoulder might not. Combined with that design feature and a controlled feed bolt action the belted magnums largely replaced double rifles as a choice for dangerous game.

 

[AK Gun Man 88]

Thanks for the info gentlemen. In looking over my original post, I realized that I did not convey concerns correctly (probably due to working a 12hour night shift). My first concern was how the 338 win mag would perform with a shorter barrel compared to the 338-06 in same length barrel. My second concern was the use of a belted magnum in the Encore compared to a rimless cartridge in a high stress situation.

Eldon, since my post was somewhat scatter brained, I guess that's why you felt the need to write your pompous put down. Furthermore, Ive only lived in Alaska for a couple of years and recently just started hunting. Therefore, just because I live here, does not mean that i am super knowledgeable. Secondly, I understand your concerns for wanting follow up shots with dangerous game. However, I am building a hunting rifle, not a defensive rifle. When I go out hunting I always take my hunting rifle and my 12 gauge pump or magnum handgun just in case things get sideways. I came here looking for advice, not to be belittled by your arrogant nature.

To everyone else, again, thank you for help.

 

[DM~]

I've owned several .338-06's and imp's, i still have two around...

How do you guys get 2900 out of 200's?? I mean with loads with decent pressures, i'm not talking about overloads!!

If you hunt big bears, 250's are mininum in my book, and yes i've shot a few big bears with .338's and seen even more shot!

I guess i get every bad .338-06 made, OR is it i load to the proper pressure levels???

DM

 

[boommer]

AK you go out in wilderness were you are the hunted also YOU better have a defensive arm in you hands with follow up shots and not rely on grabbing for another weapon. oh! I think Eldon and me were just thinking why a green horn would want to take a bigger chance on becoming scat in the wilderness.
I've had a bear sneak up on me when I was Elk hunting and I was very lucky that bear was just mostly curious!
Pompous, Arrogant, NO for me just wondering ?

 

[mooner]

I also did not get pompous out of Eldon's comment. I also agree on boomer's premise - a gun in the hand is worth (possibly) your life.

Out of pure curiosity, why are you getting rid of a bolt gun to hunt grizzly with a single shot? Simple question looking for an answer - not a put down.

I sometimes hunt with a single shot pistol, but probably wouldn't if whitetails could eat me.

 

[AK Gun Man 88]

" I would fully expect you to be more knowledgeable given that you live in Alaska," this is what I was referring to. But not get to wrapped around the axle with internet banter. The reason I want a single shot is for the excitement. For follow up shots, I will reload another round. Also hunting in AK, I never hunt alone for the simple fact of predators.

 

[jdh]

You reload for 338 win. Since you do you can work up loads with different powders to help compensate for the shorter barrel. Also for a Single shot you can neck resize having the case head space on the shoulder instead of the rim improving accuracy.

 

[DM~]

I lived in Alaska for 25 years and hunted big bears extensively... I've seen them shot or shot them myself with many different cartridges including .338 Win. Mag and the .338-06.

IMO heavier bullets of 250 grain or more is much more important than high velocity so either cartridge will work just fine. I see no advantage of getting more muzzle blast of the magnum in that short bbl., but then again you already are set up for the magnum.

When i was crawling in the alders tracking a big bear, that was sometimes already wounded, i had my .338-06 in my hands loaded with 275 Speers at 2,350fps. They will expand well and shoot through a big bear corner to corner! My second choise was 250 Nosler Partitions, i still like them!

I tried a LOT of different bullets over the years, but the above stayed my first choise in my .338-06 and would still be what i would use today, as i still have a few 275 Speers around...and of course some NP's.

DM

 

[eldon519]

AK Gun Man 88,

We've just had a misunderstanding, but I see now how my statement could be read both ways. Here was the intended interpretation with the implication that I now see I left out:
"I would fully expect you to be more knowledgeable than me on the subject given that you live in Alaska, but why do you want a single-shot for Alaska where the game you chase (or even the local fauna you might not be after) can kill you?"

I was trying to defer to the fact that you have first-hand experience, and I have never hunted Alaska though I have been up there a couple times and been in close-enough-for-me contact with browns on a week-long fishing trip up in the Kobuk River. I was even lucky enough to witness a scuffle between some of the browns from a safe distance. Very powerful critters, and I have a great deal of respect for them.

Hopefully that clears things up and there are no hard feelings. I was only trying to get a better understanding as to why you wanted the Encore vs. the bolt-action as I had trouble perceiving any real advantage to the single shot.

 

[helotaxi]

You reload for 338 win. Since you do you can work up loads with different powders to help compensate for the shorter barrel.

It doesn't work that way.

Also for a Single shot you can neck resize having the case head space on the shoulder instead of the rim improving accuracy.

You can do the same thing with a bolt action.

 

[AK Gun Man 88]

Eldon...no hard feelings brother. As far as wanting to run single shot, I have an encore right now with shotgun and muzzleloader barrel. I have taken game with the 20 gauge. I can't even begin to describe the feeling of hunting with one shot, exhilarating for me personally. That's my biggest reason. Second reason is how wieldy and lightweight the system is. I realize it would be better to hunt brownies with a bolt gun, but I plan on going with my father in law. I feel better hunting with my single shot with another person. Again eldon, no worries brother.

 

[hardluk1]

Could make it real challenging and hunt griz with a bow. 80lb pull weight and 550gr arrow would do the trick.

Most guides have short barreled 338 WM because they wanted a shorter barrel and happened to have a regular barreled rifle not because a short barrel 338wm made the best sense or was the best choice. Just the easiest. Guess if only one shot was needed a 375 would make better sense. Any how good luck with your build.

 

[browningguy]

My view is that if you need a .33 caliber rifle might as well get a real one, ie the .338 Winchester. Particularly when hunting large game the ability to shoot heavy for caliber bullets should not be underestimated, weight is penetration.

My .338 Winchester was a Mannlicher stocked Dumoulin with a 20.5" barrel, although I never ran it over a chrono it never failed to stop whatever I shot at. It particularly liked the 225 and 250 gr. loads which is what it really should be used for. If you want to shoot smaller non-dangerous game with a 185 or 200 gr. bullet then the .338-06 or .338 Federal will fill the bill. But to be honest if you are shooting the light bullets then you might as well just use a .300 Win with 180's. That will give you better SD and penetration than the light bullets in a .338" diameter.

 

[eldon519]

AK, glad there's no hard feelings. It's easy to have miscommunication when you are writing like you would speak but without the benefit of tone and emphasis to clarify the intended meaning.

You might look at a .35 Whelen or .358 Winchester. Both respond pretty well to shorter barrels compared to a .338 Win Mag or .338-06 given that they have a higher expansion ratio and subsequently are pretty efficient for large-game centerfires. In terms of expansion ratio, it tends to be near .308 vs. .30-06, and as you probably know, a .308 tends to make the most of a shorter barrel when compared to the .30-06. The .35s don't tend to excel as well for longer distances, but they can pack quite a wallop without having to use too much holdover to 300yds or so. Since you handload, you can milk a little more out of the .35 Whelen than normal. The .35 Whelen SAAMI pressure is kept relatively low at 52,000 CUP. The .338-06 benefits from a bit higher of a set chamber pressure. The barrels and actions aren't made specially weaker for the .35 Whelen, so if you want to get a little bit into the .35 Whelen+P area, you can gain some velocity. Loaded at the same pressure with similar powder, a .35 Whelen should have a slight velocity edge on a .338-06 for the same bullet weight, but of course the .338 bullet will have a better SD and should have a little bit better BC.

 

[jdh]

Helotaxi,

Go pick nits somewhere else.

First, yes you can HELP to compensate.

Second, No ****?

 

[jerkface11]

Maybe the 338 RCM or the 338 Federal would be a better cartidge. Ether cartidge can match or excede what the long mags can do out of a short barrel with less powder and muzzle blast.

You'll never go faster with less powder.

 

[tahoe2]

Huntin big bears, I would go BIG! With your choices; 338 Mag and heavy for caliber bullets, ie 250 grns & up.

 

[hardluk1]

jerkface11 Your right when barrel lenght is not an option. The powder type and amount may be same with some powders but they are are simply more efficiently burned when in a short barrel do to case design. Simply short fat cartidges do what the long mags can do but with less barrel .