.338-06 or .338 RCM?

[ECVMatt]

Hello to all,

I just got the go ahead from the wife to plan a return trip to AK for a moose hunt. I am very stoked to say the least. I really love it up there.

On my last trip I carried a Remington 700 in .338-06. I really like this round and find it easy to shoot compared to the .338 Win Mag. I did a lot of thinking about rifles while I was there and concluded that I like the Win. M-70/Ruger m-77 action much better than the Remington for the type of hunting that we were doing. We were raft hunting. Don't get me wrong, I love Remingtion 700's and have several, but I have settled on the Ruger action for my next AK trip.

I was planing on getting two Ruger M-77MKIIs and having them built identical to each other. One would be in .30-06 and the other in .338-06. I get to hunt with an 06 a lot here in CA, so that rifle would get the most use. The .338-06 would be used in AK and a future hunt in Africa. This should lessen transition time to the .338-06 when it is time to go to AK and Africa.

Now I see that Ruger introduced the .338RCM. This seems to be about the same as the .338-06. This would allow me buy a rifle off the shelf and save some dollars on the rebarreling of one of the 30-06's. I realize that this is a short action, so it would be a minor difference. My main concern is will the Ruger grow legs or will it die out. I don't have a problem loading obsolete cartridges, but '06 cases are plentiful and I already have a good supply of them.

What do you guys think? My intuition tells me to go with the .338-06, but practicality tells me to think about the .338RCM.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Matt

 

[rbernie]

I'll take 'Ruger 77MkII Stainlesss in 35 Whelen' for the win, Alex.

338-06 is nice, but 35 Whelen is mo' nice. It's easier to find ammo, and Ruger makes it so you don't have to.

 

[TexasEd]

Just a thought...Ruger is doing the the Hawkeye in 338 Federal. Seeing that Federal made the caliber I doubt that they will let it go. Tikka, Sako & Ruger are making rifles in that caliber. Check that stats on the Federal web site and decide for yourself. It's a hot little number 180, 185, 200 & 210 grain bullets all good stuff. The 200 grn is the Fusion ammo...good utility load and rather cheap. Good Luck.

 

[targshooter]

.338-06 or magnum .338

From what I've read about the .338 RCM, it will have the same recoil as the .338 WM. The .338-06 is milder and therefore easier to shoot. So, as easier to shoot is your criteria, seems to me that is your cartridge. I use and like my stainless laminated stock Ruger Model 77 chambered in .338 WM. I had Ruger install their BUIS (a service they oddly no longer provide!!!!), and with a Leupold 2-7x scope the entire system weighs about 9 1/4 lbs, so recoil is not bad. Great wilderness rifle, takes camping in adverse weather well.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Whats wrong with the M700 ????

I've hunted similar to how your'e hunting, and have a .338/06, and can't figure out where the rifle action has any bearing. (Mine is on a MkX Mauser action w/Hogue stock)

I MUCH prefer the .338/06 to the magnum for several reasons.
1. Only 90-150fps difference in muzzle velocities. with ~10-20% less recoil.
2. 5+1 magazine capacity vs. 3+1.

It will probably be much easier to find .338/06 (Weatherby or A-Square) ammo than ammo for the Ruger CPM (Hornady only for now).

I have a Ruger M77mkII and can't see where you'd have ANY advantage over the M700. I actually prefer the M700.

I plan to cut the barrel on my .338/06 to 20". The weight reduction and improvement in handling will far outweigh the slight reduction in velocity/energy (if any).

At least Ruger got it right when they made the Alaskan Hawkeye with a 20"bbl.

But, for practical purposes, the .30/06 will probably do anything the .338/06 will do. If going to AK and hunt bear, moose, caribou, sheep, heck; anything up there, I'd take my Colt LtR in .30/06 with some 200gr Nosler partitions and call it good. (6.5lb w/24"bbl) Most of the "resident" Alaskans hunt with "normal" calibers,meaning .308wcf, .30/06, 7mmRemMag, ect. Non-residents carry the behemouth magnums, except for a few bear guides. My brother spent 5yrs there in the AirForce, and found it remarkable how that the "residents" didn't especially see any need for a "magnum" over .30cal. Heck, he said most of the folks he ran into carried/used a 12ga shotgun for bear protection/stopping. At the time, the RWS/Rottwiel Brenneke slug had a stellar reputation for bear stopping..................... 72cal 1.25oz(550gr.) @ 1,700fps !! (But from a 18.5" RemM870 kicks worse than a .458winmag!)

One of the Anchorage Sporting retailers would sell several pallets of Federal Premium w/180gr Nosler Part. in .30/06 every year compared to perhaps a dozen or two boxes .338winMag in the late '70's-early '80's.

If your ammo didn't make it to camp, it'd be MUCH easier to find ammo for an '06 than some "compact magnum" of whatever description......

 

[gvnwst]

I have this thing about the .338-06, still am waiting to find a cheap used one, and since you said (well, hinted) that you reload, that is what i would go with. Probably a lot cheaper components (brass and less powder used i would think), less recoil, ect.

 

[ECVMatt]

I like the idea of the .35 Whelen...

but after looking at all the numbers, I think I will go with the .338-06 again. I really like the performance I get out it. It is so well balanced and bullet selection is much greater than with the .35's.

I like the M-77 MKII over the Remington for several reasons. I like to see the safety block the firing pin in it rear most position, I like that the bolt is one piece, I like that the bolt locks closed with the safety back and I like how the safety prevents the trigger from moving. It is all very simple and I guess I am just a simple man.

I love my Remington's and would never w/o a few, but I just prefer those features on the Ruger for the that type of hunting. It is a very subjective thing.

I am going to sell my Remington 700 .338-06 so if any one is interested PM. I will post is in the For Sale section shortly.

Thanks for all the input and keep them coming if you have anything to add.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[jmr40]

Probably not the right place for this but I have a 338-06 that I am thinking about selling. It is a custom built on an Interarms Mark X action with a McMillian stock. I just bought it last week. I really only wanted the scope on it but the dealer would not sell the scope separately. It came with a partial box of handloads that I have shot and I am now on the fence about whether to sell it or keep it. PM me if interested.

 

[shinz]

Definitely 338-06 IMHO, more rounds in the mag, better feeding, & a more practical handloaders proposition, plus, if you're loading heavy for caliber bullets, the short action that 338RCMs are chambered in will require deep seating of the heavy bullets compared to the longer neck of the 338-06.
Steve

 

[Kentucky Windage]

I'm just back from my Vancouver Island bear hunt and can report on the .338 RCM performance with Hornady 225 grain SST. Hunt was tougher than anticipated due to unusually severe winter that had bears emerging from dens late and not moving as much as I'd hoped. I passed a good 6-5 bear the first day and regretted it for the following 4 days -- at least until I found a monster bear on the last hour of the last day. Had to rush a shot at 180 yards. Solid wallop on impact. The bear whirled and leaped over an embankment, but was dead on his feet. He literally tumbled 30 yards downhill before coming to a terminal stop. There was certainly no issue with the SST's performance. It was a double-lung hit, through and through. Bear squared out at just a tad under 7 feet.

Would post a photo, but haven't figured out how to do that in this forum yet.

Rifle, by the way, initially grouped a little loose for my usual standards, but it seems to be "shooting in" nicely now.

I'm also in Calif., and my dedicated hog gun is a Ruger in 338 Fed. It's one of the few rifles I own which will shoot copper ammo sub moa.

 

[Runningman]

My main concern is will the Ruger grow legs or will it die out.

I would be a little Leary of the new 338 RCM given Rugers lack of support of their own short live 480 Ruger. They have already dropped the 480 Ruger pistols from production.

Seems like I seen Ruger is chambering the 77 MKII in 35 Whelen this year, seems like that would something to look at.

The .338-06 would be used in AK and a future hunt in Africa.

Another one that works well for Moose and is well respected in Africa, Canada and some parts of Europe is the 9.3x62 it has been around since 1905 loaded by Norma, Lapua, Prvi Partizan, Nosler to name a few. I've shot a Moose last fall with $20 a box 285 grain Prvi Partizan in 9.3x62 out of a CZ 550. It did just fine.

 

[stevelyn]

I'd take my Colt LtR in .30/06 with some 200gr Nosler partitions and call it good. (6.5lb w/24"bbl) Most of the "resident" Alaskans hunt with "normal" calibers,meaning .308wcf, .30/06, 7mmRemMag, ect. Non-residents carry the behemouth magnums, except for a few bear guides.

Ahhhhh................. Finally, a lesser 48er who gets it.

 

[jmr40]

Neither the 338 RCM nor the 338-06 are common calibers, but they hardly qualify as behemouth magnum calibers. They are relatively easy on the shoulder, sensible calibers that will cover a wide range of uses.

If they offer any real world advantages over a heavy loaded 30-06 is another debate. And one I'm not sure of the answer.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Dead is dead, as they say, but with bears I prefer a bullet with a bit larger frontal area -- hence my decision to take my last bear with the 338 RCM versus a 30-06 or similar. Besides, I like to play with new calibers.

I can tell you that the 225 grain SST simply cleaned the bear's clock with a standard through-and-through double lung shot at 180 yards. The bear whirled, leaped over a bank and tumbled, lights out, 30 yards down slope. This was a big island bear which squared nearly 7 feet, and that performance was all the evidence I need to declare the 338 RCM a winner -- particularly when you consider that it comes in a light, handy 20-inch barrel package.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

338 RCM Island Bear

[/IMG]

 

[jerkface11]

I'm willing to part with my Savage 110 with an Adams and Bennett .338-06 barrel. $400 gets you the rifle with the Leopold scope mount and rings. $425 gets the dies and fireformed brass thrown in.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

And here's a nice meat hog I shot yesterday with my .338 Fed using 185 grain TSX, so I'm obviously not just stuck on the 338 RCM. I believe there's room in my safe for just about anything that starts with the numbers "338."

 

[jim in Anchorage]

On my last trip I carried a Remington 700 in .338-06. I really like this round and find it easy to shoot compared to the .338 Win Mag. I did a lot of thinking about rifles while I was there and concluded that I like the Win. M-70/Ruger m-77 action much better than the Remington for the type of hunting that we were doing. We were raft hunting. Don't get me wrong, I love Remingtion 700's and have several, but I have settled on the Ruger action for my next AK trip.

Where at ?

 

[akodo]

Just so we are all on the same page...

RCM aka Ruger Compact Magnum is just another 'short magnum' just like WSM (winchester short magnum) and RSAUM (Remington short action ultra mag)

The 300 RCM, 300 WSM, and 300 RSAUM all duplicate the 300 winmag in a shorter package. The velocities with any given bullet weight are within a percent or two of eachother. I also tend to see a bit lower 300 winmag numbers by the same makers who are touting the new 300 shortmags, so I wonder if they are doing that to make the new stuff seem better.

Further, I am sure they are really tweaking those short magnum loads to get those numbers. They may be honest numbers, but don't expect to duplicate them in reloading your own.

Anyways, if you wouldn't consider a 338 winmag, then don't consider a 338 short mag. The reason I started out taking about 30 caliber is that not all 'short mags' have 338 loadings.

The fact that you chose the 338-06 over the 338 winmag tells me you are not looking for a 'magnum' but something that hits hard non-the-less.

the 338 Federal, is of course the 308 necked up to 338, vs the 30-06 necked up to 338 ala the 338-06. I have to think the greater case capacity of the 338-06 makes it the clear superior performer vs the 338 federal.

Why someone doesn't 'legitemize' the 338-06, I just don't know, it is a FINE cartridge, especially for those who aren't addicted to magnumitis, yet don't believe that the 30-06 is the only gun in the world.

Finally, as others have mentioned, maybe the best of both worlds would be the 35 whelen, which is of course the 30-06 necked to 35 caliber, and as a factory loading, is going to be easier to get ammo for if you are ever in a pinch. Of course, you aren't going to find 35 whelen at the local mom and pop 'everything store'

One note of caution. I have heard some rumblings about a 'hidden headspacing issue in 35 whelen "that most don't recognize or at least tend to ignore"

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Afraid I have to disagree. The "best of both worlds," in my humble opinion, would be to own at least one of everything.

 

[sfc_mark]

Actually, the .338-06 has been "legitimized" as the .338-06 A-Square by Weatherby, with Mk V rifles (formerly) chambered in the caliber. Factory ammunition is available from both Weatherby and Norma (both produced by Norma) although it is a relatively steep $67 a box online.

You can still use .30-06 or .270 brass passed once through a full-length resizing die to form your brass, but the availability of factory brass with the proper headstamp can be a definite plus when traveling, in case of varying import restrictions.

I too have been considering a M77 Hawkye .338-06 conversion for a future Africa hunt. The Ruger has controlled round feed, Mauser style claw extractor, 3 position safety so you can unload with the safety on, and an adjustable trigger to replace the miserable 77 Mk II trigger.

Add an ER Shaw rebarrel to replace Ruger's substandard tubes and you have a damn fine hunting rifle.

Literature suggests the .338 Federal delivers 7mm Rem Mag or slightly better energy at sub-.308 recoil...I would expect a similar improvement from .30-06 to .338-06. Near .338 Win Mag ballistics with less than .30-06 recoil? I'm all over that.

Plus, not everybody has one like it.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

Get yer self a mans rifle... Marlin 45/70 for everything short of whaling

 

[tango2echo]

I have been thinking about a .338-06 myself. I like the .338 Federal (.338-08), ALOT, but in my limited experience reloading it I have found it very difficult or impossible to duplicate the factory numbers. As far as the .338 RCM goes, IMO Ruger just jumped on the short magnum bandwagon hoping to get a share of the market. I do not believe it will be around in 5 years or so.

You should think about the .30-06 though. I am from the "bring enough gun" fan club, but moose are not that hard to kill. Use a heavy bullet and keep your shots to modest ranges and it will kill quick and clean. If you are also hunting bear on your trip then I would lean towards a heavier caliber.

t2e