338 Federal or 45-70

[Nomad44]

Ok, I have seen numerous threads comparing calibers, but I have not seen a comparison of the 338 Federal and the 45-70 (Lever Action).

I have crunched some numbers, but I would like some practical knowledge about them. (I've punched lots of paper, but no animals in the lower 48)

So, which would you prefer for large North American game?

 

[Jonny V]

The 45/70, particularly in the Marlin lever action rifle, is more than a match for any North American game animal, and most African species as well (except elephant, rhino, and maybe hippo). It has a track record of over 135 years to back it up. The 45/70 is one of the high water marks of firearms development and the 338 fed is not in its class. Comparing the 338 fed with the 45/70 would be like announcing that Paris Hilton would be as great a James Bond girl as Ursula Andress.......(even though their ages are similar hehehe...)

 

[Lovesbeer99]

Just curios why those are you're only choices? Why not include the 30-06, or 7mm rem mag?

I have not shot either, but from what I see on paper, bullet choices, and platforms, I'd like the 338.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I don't own a 338...but I know a little about 45-70's.

Just a few of its finer points...

1- It will kill ANYTHING on this side of the world with a dirt cheap, cast lead bullet. (Quality 338 bullets are about $1 each...just for a bullet, not loaded ammo)...it costs me about 3 cents to fire a round of my home rolled 45-70 ammo.

2- In a Marlin lever action...it is quick handling, quick follow up shots, easy to carry....and its just as accurate as most bolt actions (and often more accurate)

3- I see you are located in PA, I've been to PA quite a few times...all over it (OTR truck driver) and most of what I've seen is woodlands...prime lever action country up there. Not a whole lot of use for a "reach out there" round such as the 338...but the 45-70 is easy to shoot at 200 yards, and it can kill cleanly at MUCH longer ranges but it requires a skilled shooter who takes the time to get to know the trajectory of that big, slow bullet.


BUT, consider this before making any decisions...

A fully loaded Marlin 45-70 firing a 405 grain bullet at 1,900 fps kicks like a mad mule...and that is not an exaggeration. I love mine and I shoot the barn burner loads almost exclusively (if I had wanted a pea shooter I would have bought a 22). If you are recoil sensitive the 45-70 may not be for you...

But it brings a smile to my face every time...

 

[2ndAmFan]

The 45/70 is a heavy, short range round, and has ample power to do that for which it is designed. The .338 is good for considerably greater ranges. Depends on your expected use for the rifle. I would opt for a 45/70 simply because I am unlikely to be taking shots at any range over 100 to a maximum of 150 yards, but others may prefer to try hunting at longer ranges.
I know if I was facing a charging brown bear I would feel a lot better using a 45/70 than a .338, but to each his or her own.

 

[/k/anadian]

*Reasons to take the .338
Don't reload
Ability to comfortable shoot more than 200 yards with less drop
Preference for bolt action rifles

*Reasons to take the 45/70
Hot load potential (goes hand in hand with how good you are at taking recoil)
Superior for dense wood, closer range hunting (a 400gr bullet doing 1900ft/s will plow through pretty much anything and still go straight through whatever animal you shoot at)
Faster follow up shots/Preference for lever actions

 

[Onmilo]

.338 Federal shoots with a lot less drop than a .45/70!
Retains more energy than a .45/70
Costs about the same per shell as a .45/70
Can be chambered in a semi auto rifle, something the .45/70 cannot without some extensive gunsmithing and nobody need post a picture of a Gatling Gun, nobody hunts with a Gatling Gun!
Ballistically, at least on paper, the .338 Federal outperforms the old .358 Winchester and is closer to the .350 Remington Magnum.

I'll let you know more of my opinions when I actually get around to obtaining an Armalite or DPMS AR10 in .338 Federal.
One of them is on the short list.
Right now I like the Armalite for overall good things I hear but the DPMS is calling because it shares more commonality of magazines with other manufacturers of AR10 type rifles.

 

[quietman]

338 Marlin Express over both.

 

[chas08]

45/70 I own one, I like it, and I've seen too many, flash in the pan, greatest thing since sliced bread, new cartridges fizzle and fade to obscurity in ten years or less. I don't consider the 45/70 a short range round unless you are talking taking shots over 300yds as the norm. It's still a popular chambering with ammo widely available a 135+ years after its introduction.

 

[Robert]

I am using my Marlin 1895G for Elk in about 3 weeks. 45-70 is by no means a short range round, but you have to really know your holds and windage.

 

[Onmilo]

Military use cartridges have always been popular with American shooters.
I own four .45/70 rifles, several M1 Garands, three M1A rifles, and several Ar15 rifles.
I still like the concept of the .338 Federal and also agree that like many very good cartridges, it may fade into obscurity because the country just doesn't need another specialized hunting cartridge when the Military cartridges do such a bang up job already.

 

[jmr40]

Of those 2 I'd go 45-70. I prefer a bolt action because they are simpler designs with less to go wrong however. For larger game at short to medium range I'd take either the 338/06, 35 Whelen or possibly the new 338 Ruger Compact Magnum.

I own 45-70, 338-06 and 35 Whelen. In my book either the 338/06 or 35 Whelen are a much better choice than 45-70. The 338 Federal is close, but just does not handle bullets heavy enough to go after something that could bite back.

 

[cougar1717]

OP - so, are you shooting buffalo or elk?

 

[Coal Dragger]

If those were my two choices as rounds to start hunting with as a general purpose round, I would pick the .338 Federal hands down. Packaged in a nice trim bolt action rifle with a reasonably sized variable power scope of good quality the .338 Federal will make for a really nice hunting rifle. Nice efficient cartridge, pretty good ballistics, more than enough power, and tolerable recoil with full throttle (factory) loads.

The .45-70 is a great cartridge don't get me wrong, but unless you reload your own ammo, or are willing to pay $$$$ for specialty +P factory rounds from Buffalo Bore or Garrett etc, then you will not see it's full potential. If you do reload or use the above mentioned ammo to get all the power you can, then you can flatten just about any animal you can accurately put a bullet into. The downside is that the rifle will kill on one end, and maim on the other.

 

[rcmodel]

You might be able to buy a box of 45-70 in the general store in Moose Skat Alaska.

Not so much the .338 Federal ammo.

If I was wanting a longe range big game caliber, I would buy a 30-06 or .338 Winchester.
You can find ammo for them almost anywhere ammo is sold.

If I wanted a deep dark woods gun to take on anything that walks in North America, it would be a 45-70.

rc

 

[Nomad44]

Cougar, Thinking more along the line if a bear bothers me. I have a 308 that covers the lighter side of hunting, but am interested in something for the occasional heaver game.

I like the thought of the 338 Federal (especially since I have a lot of 308 brass), but I like the ability to tailor the 45-70 from light trapdoor loads to stouter marlin power levels.

 

[Coal Dragger]

You could realistically do the same load tailoring with the .338 Federal, think along the lines of reduced power managed recoil loads. You could also run gas checked cast bullets out of it too.

 

[Nomad44]

Coal Dragger, Now you have me wondering if a hard cast out of the 338 Federal would have the same kind of results that they have in a 45-70.

 

[Jonny V]

Nomad, the 45/70 is the answer to your quandry if you're thinking about bears or moose or buffalo. The 45/70 will completely penetrate (meaning in one side and out the other) any of those animals from any angle with the heavy loads from Garrett or Buffalo Bore. You can tone it down to the factory Remington or Winchesters for regular shooting. Don't worry about "reliable expansion" or any of these other marketing pitches the shysters are hucking either. When you have a .458 dia 405 or 500 grain bullet with a big flat nose moving at 1900 fps, who cares? You have a 1900 fps sledgehammer.

And don't listen to these naysayers about range either. You can ring the gong all day at 500 yards, or even twice that.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

The 338 Federal won't shoot heavy enough bullets to to what the 45-70 does...much the same as a 45-70 won't shoot light enough bullets to do what the 338 does.

The are 2 very different rounds...its really kinda hard to compare them outside of this (below)

A properly loaded 45-70 will virtually FLATTEN anything...anything, on this continent.

The 338 hits pretty hard too, but it cannot ever come close to the TKO of the 45-70...ever.

 

[Jonny V]

I don't mean to sound high and mighty, I'm not. The .338 dia bullet in the 340 Weatherby is one of the all-time great hunting rounds on the planet. Your original post mentioned that you were looking at lever action rifles, that's the reason I'm so dead set on the 45/70 here. If you're considering multiple different platforms, then that opens up all sorts of things.....

How about a nice double rifle in 470 Nitro Express? You won't need to worry about any so called "follow up shot" because your game wont survive the first one, hehehe.

 

[Nomad44]

Jonny V KNow any good Serpas to carry a 470 NE double?

 

[Jonny V]

I called one or two, and they started talking about unionizing and filling out workers comp claims............I'll keep trying, believe you me!!!

 

[Jonny V]

All kidding aside, the difference between these two rounds couldn't be more plain to see. When I started thinking about getting back into shooting after a number of years off, my fondest dream was to have a 30-378 Weatherby with a huge (3-15x or 3-18x) Swarovski scope so that I could be the total master of the earth (at least within eye-sight of my position) just the way they taught me in the USMC. I would be lord and master, life taker and heart breaker...........No one would dare to challenge me and my 180 grain X-bullets at 3600 fps with only 19" of drop at 500 yards, NO ONE!!! HAHAHAAHAH!

After going out and shooting my grandfathers rifle (which I admit), I considered to be 'second rate', I have changed my opinion. There are some marvels of engineering that transcend time, (in my grandfathers case) the 270 Winchester, and in your case the 45/70 Govt.

The 45/70 has been here for all these years because it works. This new 338 federal might be gone next week, and that would leave you loading what would be considered a 'wildcat' round. Previous poster RCModel was right when he said that you could get 45/70 in moose-dung Alaska. They have them now, they'll have them next year, and they'll have them in 40 years time too.

What I'm saying is to invest your hard earned money in things that are truly great, not in things that just showed up last week.

 

[Maverick223]

.45-70Govt. is a much better thumper...good for anything from pig and deer all the way up to big bear with the proper loading. I think a more adequate comparison is to the .338WM or better yet .375H&H; the .338Fed. is a mere footnote by comparison.