Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bfh_auto, Apr 15, 2018.
That is a story for your grandkids.
I have 2 .35 Whelens, a 7600 and a Montana 1999-actioned custom.
I've shot .357 bullets through other .35 Whelens with good success.
I saw a very tough buck take a .35 Remington through the ribs, and get up and run away when approached over 30 minutes alter. I finally put him down for good with a 155 grn XTP from a 40 S&W under the jaw.
Keep in mind the .35 whelen was a solution to thousands of 30-06 owners who wanted a gun for elk, moose, great bears. For 75-100 dollars you could rebore a 50 buck '03-A3 to a legit great bear gun. A blue collar guy ( like me) could equal .375 HH at a fraction of the price. Modern calibers can equal the .35 and .375 HH but for ethical hunting ranges not surpass them in hunting situations.
Can a gun at least be "cool" without being superior or even equal to everything else? Sure, there are guns that have advantages in ballistics, knockdown power, etc. but the .35 whelen and hundreds of others will kill big game too. And they're fun to shoot
For me it's an I want it just because....
Superior doesn't matter. We still use black powder firearms.
I wanted a whelen cause it's old school cool. And cause it'll take a bear pretty easy.
I'm just surprised that some one could actually "believe" the 35 Whelen "equals" the 375 H&H!
My .35 Brown-Whelen puts a 225 grain Nosler Partition Jacket over my Crony at a little over 2,800 fps. That just about matches the .338 Win Mag.
A great cartridge. It has a long and venerable history. I have one of the very light single shot CVA models with a 24 or 25 inch Bergerra barrel. It does very well with the 200 grain Federal Fusion.
I will also offer you some very sound advice: If you get a light one, bring it to your trusted gunsmith and get him to install a GOOD muzzle brake.
You will thank me.
The Old Handloader
Bigfoot Wallace, my .35 Brown-Whelen is a heavy rifle, 8 1/2 lbs unloaded without scope or sling. And the stock is properly designed for a hard kicking rifle. And it has a soft recoil pad. When I got it, the former owner had some cast bullet loads, and a lot of info on those loads. When I asked him about jacketed bullets, he said, "There were some jacketed loads with the rifle when I got it. They almost tore my head off, and I've only shot it with cast bullets ever since."
I don't hunt with it every year, it's 35 WhelenAI long throated for 225gr AB. I have Speer reloading manual for Wildcat Cartridge first printing 1956 and they have loads for the Wildcat 35 Whelen. It does give little history dating back to 1920/30 when 35 Whelen was option vs 375 mag and they do mention the IMP 35 Whelen but give no data.
For a case that was developed 1920 done well for itself.
The problem is, you can only guess at the pressures you are creating and that's "mostly" how "wildcat" cartridges get their huge claims...
Another point I'd like to make...
For elk on down most any of the common cartridges work just fine, I mean how much velocity/bullet weight/cartridge do you need to kill a deer??
SO, what separates them for me is moose and brown bear, something I have quite a bit of experience with... Personally, I wouldn't hunt brown bear with a 35cal. 225NP... In 35cal. I would prefer a heavier bullet for that... Rib shots are fine but I don't take rib shots on DG and even on moose I want the more penetration a heavier bullet will give in 35cal...
I have used 250NP's in .338, but they have quite a bit better SD over a 225/35cal...which is another reason I like .338 bullets better than a .358 bullet.
I looked at the Brown/Whelen but decided on 35 Whelen AI. I do agree with you on 338mag as I shot one for couple years here in Co bull elk tag. The AI I'm using 225gr AB and if I live long enough to draw moose tag here I'll use that rifle.
Well good luck
Oh, I don't deny that I can't measure pressures. I developed my loads for this rifle by starting with standard .35 Whelen loads from the Hodgdon manual, and working up slowly, then backing off if I saw pressure signs.
Unless you have a pressure transducer on all your hunting guns you have no idea what the pressure is in any gun, even shooting factory ammo. Luckily there are other ways to tell what is safe and what is not which is why we handloaders haven't all blown our hands off.
I agree. Not all guns are the same.
My brother has a 22 inch barreled 22-250 that runs 55 vmaxs over 4000 with book loads of H-380. I would call BS if I wasn't doing the testing.
My rifle shoots the same load at just over 3800.
I guess no one heard of QL
I've had loads that were fine in one gun flatten and crater primers in another, so no, Quickload does not know what the pressure is in your gun.
My thoughts on the 35 Whelen are that I probably won't get another one. I went through my 35 W and 9.3x62 phase several years ago, and while they were interesting cartridges, when I loaded them up to their full potential (250gr @ 2,500 fps in the 35 W, and 286gr @ 2,400 fps in the 9.3), I found the recoil quite unpleasant in normal weight rifles. Even dialed down a notch they weren't a whole lot of fun, and I couldn't figure out what I was getting over a .270, .308 or .30-06 for my purposes to justify all this recoil.
Of course at the time I was only hunting deer and hogs and in my opinion full power .30-06 is borderline overpowered for whitetail, I definitely didn't need more horsepower. Now that I've started chasing elk, my thoughts on the medium bores havn't really changed. The two I've knocked over were with a .270 and a 6.5 CM, I think this year I'll use my heavy rifle, a .30-06, but I really don't see a need for much over that unless you are after bigger or tougher game like DM~ said. Even then, if I'm dealing with more recoil I'd prefer something like a 300 WM to a Whelen.
That's just my $.02, and while I can (and often do) shoot a few boxes of warm .30-06 during a range trip, anything much over that level and I'm kind of a recoil weanie.
As Townsend Whelen himself was wont to say, "The .30-06 is never a mistake."
Nosler has load for 35 Whelen using 225gr bullet @ 2800fps. I have 2-30-06 (different barrels/twist) and they shoot same loads fine of course I had them chamber using same reamer.
That's with Varget. Varget and RL 15 are the top powders for the .35 Brown-Whelen, in my experience.
I have a Whelen in a model 700 Remington,and it's one of my favorite deer guns.I do a lot of hunting in a place that is very steep and rough,and the only way out is back the way you came,and uphill all the way.If you don't anchor the deer,and he runs downhill,it means the better part of a day's work getting him out.I got my 35 for that reason.225 grain Game Kings do a great job for me on deer,and I wouldn't change a thing for elk.It turns right at 2700 over the chrono,and is surprisingly accurate.The rifle weighs a little over 7 pounds and can be a bit hard on the shoulder,but I really like the way it works.I have a 300 WM that is almost identical to the 35,and it doesn't seem to kick as bad as the Whelen.If it's loaded right,300 yards is well within reach of the one I have,but it's about 9 inches low,where I sight my win mag in for 300.It's just a very cool round,and it has a great ability to just flat knock deer down,which can save me a lot of misery.
A classic old cartridge that will definitely get the job done as others have pointed out here. My only issue was the fairly narrow range of bullets that are truly appropriate for the round (never liked the idea of using pistol bullets in the Whelen) as well as the availability of those bullets. For this reason, my last build was the .338 Rice (338-06 Asquare with a 35 degree shoulder). Better bullet selection. Better availability of bullets. Flatter shooting. Although the flatter trajectory probably exists more on paper than it does anywhere else. Just respect the range limitations of the Whelen...don't think I would attempt any ultra-long range shots with the Whelen or the 338 Rice for that matter. But at normal hunting ranges, the Whelen will put animals on the ground like they were struck by the hammer of Thor. Now if I'm going to hunt anything that could seriously hurt me, I opt for a much more powerful round...Just my preference.
While I'd love to have a 35 Whelen, just because, I'd not trade my 375 H&H for one nor would I expect the same level of perforce from it either. I can push heavier bullets faster with the 375 than the 35 ever could. But, I'd still love to have one built from a Model 70.
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