350 Remington Magnum (who needs it?)
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Maverick223
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I don't currently load the black stuff, I have just done a bit of research on case sizes do to the project and from all accounts the -70 has come up a little short and the -120 holds a little more than 120gr. The .45-70 was originally called the ".45-70-405 Government" and fully described the cartridge (with the exception of the charge being a bit off), as it detailed the caliber (.45"), the charge of BP (70gr.), the weight of the projectile (405gr.), as well as the designer or in this case who commissioned the cartridge design (Government) after the previous cartridge was a flop (the 50-70 IIRC). FWIW, the "70" is for the weight of the black-powder charge but the weight of H2O is about the same (about 79gr.) because black has a specific gravity of 1.0-1.3.
I wasn't suggesting that you didn't...just sharing my distaste for the system...but I will say that it's better than the .270Win., et al.
The 7mm Rem. Mag, and indirectly the .375H&H like most other magnums, which is likely why it received the "Magnum" moniker.
Wanta B
Member
The .350 Rem Mag is based off the same .300HH that so many other Magnums like the 7mmRemMag,.300WM,.338WM,340WbyMag,etc. So to reitterate,parent cases for the reloader abound...
I wish Marlin had done the same with their .450 Marlin...Lawyers=? or Propiratory case belt=?..............I have had my Marlin XLR rebarreled to .458x2.16 for more aboundant cases,as it should have been to begin with.IMO.
I wish Marlin had done the same with their .450 Marlin...Lawyers=? or Propiratory case belt=?..............I have had my Marlin XLR rebarreled to .458x2.16 for more aboundant cases,as it should have been to begin with.IMO.
Wanta B
Member
Maveric223---I took no offense nor thought that you were suggesting that I did not know.Only making conversation and hoping to add my take on the designation system.
Wanta B
Member
Ooops,I think your correct Maveric223 that it was the 375HH,not the 300HH.
Maverick223
Member
I was actually referring to AB, whom seemed to be offended by my statement.
Well technically we are both correct...because the .300H&H came from the .375H&H as well (as did nearly all other "belted magnums"), but the .350RM actually was a direct descendant of the 7mmRM IIRC.
I love the 350 RM because it punches big holes and there is plenty of brass everywhere. I am also working on another wildcat related to the 350 RM. It is called the 9.3 BS (for Barnesness-Sisk). This one also punches big holes and anchors everything you throw these big pills at. Even Midwayusa.com sells brass for it now, check out the link at: www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=952816
Custom gunsmith Charlie Sisk and John Barsness came up with the 9.3 Barsness-Sisk (BS) by necking the .350 Remington Magnum up to 9.3mm. It does exactly the same things as the 9.3x62 but in a short action. Loads shot from a custom Sisk Remington Model 700 with a 23-inch Lilja barrel. (Handloader Issue #250 - December, 2007). Here is an article on it: http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=4591
Custom gunsmith Charlie Sisk and John Barsness came up with the 9.3 Barsness-Sisk (BS) by necking the .350 Remington Magnum up to 9.3mm. It does exactly the same things as the 9.3x62 but in a short action. Loads shot from a custom Sisk Remington Model 700 with a 23-inch Lilja barrel. (Handloader Issue #250 - December, 2007). Here is an article on it: http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=4591
I wasn't offended by it. You're right that the .30-'06 was developed in 1906, and the .270, .25-06, .338-06, .35 Whelen, 6mm-06, .280, et al. were not. However, the names of the other cartridges are -06, not -'06, so they don't refer to 1906; they refer to the -06 cartridge case.
A name that designated caliber, case, and developer would probably make the most sense.
Maybe the .338 Winchester Magnum could be the .338-HHBM-Winchester. A tweaked version of the round could be the .338.1-HHBM-Winchester.
Names like .338x57 O'Connor are an attempt to do this. But that's also true for .25-06 Remington, which doesn't mean "Caliber .25 of 1906" like the .30-'06 name does; it means .25" bullet in .30-'06 brass.
Sadly, I don't think we'll see anything like this, because obscurity serves the marketing of some cartridges.
Maverick223
Member
Agreed.
I don't doubt that at all. If someone doesn't like the .30-06, it would be unlikely that they would give the .270Win., .280Rem., .35Whelen, et al a shot, due to knowing the parent case, even if it might serve their needs a little better.
I'm the opposite. I LIKE the parent case, and, for example, I'd love to get a .338-06 after seeing the numbers it turns out. The Model 70 long action is a good deal shorter than some, so a .338-06 in a Model 70 would make for a rifle with .338 WinMag performance (for all practical purposes), with decent magazine capacity and without a bulky receiver.
I know, hunting isn't battle, but with a 5-round rifle, I feel fine just loading it up, and stashing a few extra rounds in the backpack somewhere. With a 3-round rifle, I feel more like I have to have a few extra rounds where I can grab them quickly.
Uncle Mike
Member
Amen to that....Already trying to scarf up parts for the build but...
just you try and find a Model 70 receiver...scarce as golden hens teeth and twice as expensive!
Would that be sweet or what...a Model 70 in 338-06!
and I'm not about to drop 700 bills on the whole rifle and re-barrel it!
Hail hail to ups...we received our Winchester order, the Remington order and...ready for this.... 1 box of ammo, that's right, you read right...1 box! out how many case...!?!?
Anyway, gotta get the 338-06 built!
Maverick223
Member
You spelled Hell wrong.
So I assume that the parts for your new build have arrived, and you decided upon the .338-06?
Maverick223
Member
Hmm, that is interesting, do they have any long, magnum actions? I would love to have a new model Winchester chambered in either .375H&H or .416Rigby (which probably won't fit due to the enormous OAL). Wouldn't mind a .260Rem., but I don't know if that is worth the additional cost over a factory Featherweight in 7mm-08.
Maverick223
Member
Figured that much. That is why I inquired, if the .300WM and new .338WM fit the .375H&H should also (don't know if the .416Rigby would or not...probably not, it's big), but I am not buying the whole rifle to replace the stock, barrel, refinish, and tie up a whole lot of gunsmith funds in...looks like I'll be getting that new Ruger M-77 Mk-II (will likely get one next week).
Steve Marshall
Member
There was a post here recently about why an 8x57 cartridge didn't fit an 8x57 rifle. It didn't fit because it was a DIFFERENT 8x57 cartridge entirely. Myself, I like our colorful and confusing names for cartridges.
As to the 350RM? Same power as a .338WM in a light, short handy package. What's not to like? If you really are concerned about Magnum monikers, try looking at the Weatherby .224 Magnum or even the 300 H&H magnum. The 300 gave, in it's day, perhaps 150 FPS over a 30-06. The .224 doesn't even best a 22-250.
As to the 350RM? Same power as a .338WM in a light, short handy package. What's not to like? If you really are concerned about Magnum monikers, try looking at the Weatherby .224 Magnum or even the 300 H&H magnum. The 300 gave, in it's day, perhaps 150 FPS over a 30-06. The .224 doesn't even best a 22-250.
Maverick223
Member
I think the 300H&H Magnum makes perfect sense, it is the .375H&H Magnum necked down, and was one of the most powerful .30cals in its day.
Uncle Mike
Member
NO!!! Shucks, I'm still waiting on the final parts for the 30-06 I am doing to return from the coating shop, after new years now....dangit!
we have a few of the CDNN FN SPR actions, all short, rough finish, you would be well off to turn them, and they are the 'old' actions built in CT., not that they are bad or anything, but I don't want to use one.
The 30-06 in all polymer coated and camo....not your elegant looking rifle, all balls, for working.
The 338-06, I'm not sure if I want another 'work' rifle, or a pretty, blue and wood.
Depends on the cash I have, the time I have, what's available when I kick off the project.
Maverick223
Member
Don't feel bad, I have only been looking for a new gunsmith for a couple of months now...one is scheduled to come in on Tues. of next week, and then (assuming he seems to know what he is doing) I can finally finish my 1885 project and begin saving up for brass (@ $2/case) so I can start load development.
Yep, I'll pass too...they are pretty good actions, but not nearly as nice as the new models that I have seen, nor is it the size I want.
Polish blue, add walnut. Everybody likes a purdy rifle.
Uncle Mike
Member
Yeah....the poly coated '06, which has a long and involved story behind it...
I would like a blue and walnut.
What happened with the other one, simply put, it was speced. out a certain way, screwed up, sold, returned, speced. again, done, refused because of a death in the customers family and finally bought and changed again by yours truly....Has not had a round fired through it yet!
So, if I don't end up 'hauling the trash' out with another rifle, I'll start from scratch and do what I really want! Yeah, that's it...lol hehehehe
I would like a blue and walnut.
What happened with the other one, simply put, it was speced. out a certain way, screwed up, sold, returned, speced. again, done, refused because of a death in the customers family and finally bought and changed again by yours truly....Has not had a round fired through it yet!
So, if I don't end up 'hauling the trash' out with another rifle, I'll start from scratch and do what I really want! Yeah, that's it...lol hehehehe
At the time of it's introduction the 350 rem mag was the most powerful cartridge available in a short action rifle that was factory loaded. Jeff Cooper considered it his go to gun and carried it in Africa as his "light" rifle. The 460 G&A Special was his heavy rifle. Ruger made a limited run of the 350 rem mag a few years ago. I work with a guy that got one. The model 600 remington series were short action rifles that were ahead of their time and came out I believe in 1965. They are highly sought after now days. Consequently they are also not cheap.
Float Pilot
Member
I have seen two or three Ruger M77MKII all weather stainless rifles in 350 Remington Mag in the past month at a couple of stores.
The one I bought two years ago has been working out just fine.
The one I bought two years ago has been working out just fine.
Uncle Mike
Member
Yeah, I wish I would have gotten one when we had them....hind sight.....or is that hind end?
tallcharlie
Member
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Little rifle, big cartridge
I bought a 600 Mohawk chambered in 350 Rem Mag in 1969 while I was home on leave between Army assignments. Several years later I took it on a hunt out West and used it from horseback to kill a pretty good sized bear with one shot from about 30 feet.
Unfortunately, the muzzle was about 8" from my mare's ear when I fired, and this provoked her into taking me on a wild ride down a slope covered with loose shale and dirt with me hanging onto the rifle with my left hand and the saddle horn with my right.
All the way to the bottom, I could hear the guide's laughter, never mind that I had saved him and his horse from a nasty surprise.
I subsequently discovered that the bullet had literally crushed the bear's spine and stopped her in her tracks: skid marks on her chin. Let me say that I have no regrets about shooting her in the back.
I've often thought about that minute since, and believe that the short barrel and compact length of the Model 600 were significant contributing factors to me being able to get the rifle out of the scabbard and into action quickly. Also, I'm sure the size and light weight helped me keep hold of it all the way down the hill.
To my eternal regret, I sold that little rifle a few years later when I was out of work for a couple of months. Now I own a couple of 673s in 350 Rem Mag, and I recently found a mint 600 in .308 Win. I reload, and find the Sierra 200 and 225 bullets sufficient to cover all my needs, but have also loaded a few 250 Noslers out of curiousity.
The 350 can be loaded down to make a positively delightful brush cartridge for use in heavy scrub like we have here in Tennessee.
I bought a 600 Mohawk chambered in 350 Rem Mag in 1969 while I was home on leave between Army assignments. Several years later I took it on a hunt out West and used it from horseback to kill a pretty good sized bear with one shot from about 30 feet.
Unfortunately, the muzzle was about 8" from my mare's ear when I fired, and this provoked her into taking me on a wild ride down a slope covered with loose shale and dirt with me hanging onto the rifle with my left hand and the saddle horn with my right.
All the way to the bottom, I could hear the guide's laughter, never mind that I had saved him and his horse from a nasty surprise.
I subsequently discovered that the bullet had literally crushed the bear's spine and stopped her in her tracks: skid marks on her chin. Let me say that I have no regrets about shooting her in the back.
I've often thought about that minute since, and believe that the short barrel and compact length of the Model 600 were significant contributing factors to me being able to get the rifle out of the scabbard and into action quickly. Also, I'm sure the size and light weight helped me keep hold of it all the way down the hill.
To my eternal regret, I sold that little rifle a few years later when I was out of work for a couple of months. Now I own a couple of 673s in 350 Rem Mag, and I recently found a mint 600 in .308 Win. I reload, and find the Sierra 200 and 225 bullets sufficient to cover all my needs, but have also loaded a few 250 Noslers out of curiousity.
The 350 can be loaded down to make a positively delightful brush cartridge for use in heavy scrub like we have here in Tennessee.
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