357 load development and casual observations

20211021_132825.jpg Tried accurate #9 today and it's a fun to shoot powder. Ran federal spm and still ended up with some cases with unburnt powder. I ran 12.3 to 13.7 grains. The top charge was my best group but reverification on another day is probably warranted because I jerked a few and was not spot on. I may run a cci vs federal test next just to keep things interesting. As always at 10 yards circles are 5.5 inches.
 
View attachment 1033105 Tried accurate #9 today and it's a fun to shoot powder. Ran federal spm and still ended up with some cases with unburnt powder. I ran 12.3 to 13.7 grains. The top charge was my best group but reverification on another day is probably warranted because I jerked a few and was not spot on. I may run a cci vs federal test next just to keep things interesting. As always at 10 yards circles are 5.5 inches.
Pretty good. I like No.9 (no Beatles jokes, please;)) It's up there with 2400 in my "Magnum pistol powders" stash. I have yet to try Enforcer. Bought some intending to try it with some Speer 135gr. GDHP's. Work, community, family... geez! when does it all end? :cuss:

Oh, wait... never mind. I know the answer to that. :eek::oops:
 
Pretty good. I like No.9 (no Beatles jokes, please;)) It's up there with 2400 in my "Magnum pistol powders" stash. I have yet to try Enforcer. Bought some intending to try it with some Speer 135gr. GDHP's. Work, community, family... geez! when does it all end? :cuss:

Oh, wait... never mind. I know the answer to that. :eek::oops:
Do you ever get enough pressure to get a complete burn every time maybe with jacketed?
 
Do you ever get enough pressure to get a complete burn every time maybe with jacketed?
With No.9, no. I am shooting 158gr GDHP's mostly - except now I'm out and they're not available! :cuss:- and always have at least some unburned residue. Never enough to worry about, though. I'm shooting these in a 6-1/2" Blackhawk almost exclusively. I don't have my load data available at work but, it's not a stout load, IIRC. I got it off the Speer site, I think. The 4" .357's don't seem to like No.9 as well.
 
With No.9, no. I am shooting 158gr GDHP's mostly - except now I'm out and they're not available! :cuss:- and always have at least some unburned residue. Never enough to worry about, though. I'm shooting these in a 6-1/2" Blackhawk almost exclusively. I don't have my load data available at work but, it's not a stout load, IIRC. I got it off the Speer site, I think. The 4" .357's don't seem to like No.9 as well.
The dam 4" struggle is real. ;)
 
The dam 4" struggle is real. ;)
I need to check my load book but I "think" I did have a good 4" No.9 load worked up for the Colt Lawman. I'll look tonight after dinner and post the load and as much data as I have on it.

It's a great full power powder but it needs some barrel to work and a tight fit to the bore.
 
Did you settle on a 2400 load or is still that in progress? Nice thread, I'm enjoying it!
I'm working up loads for all the powders I have so I can deal with whatever is available. With #9 and 4227 leaving so much unburnt powder I will not use them for regular duty. I will try again with 180s in the carbine. I enjoy mag loads but so far siholloette seems my favorite in my 4" with cast. Enforcer is also available but that's going the wrong direction on the burn rate chart. If I can find #7 I'll pick up a pound to play with. I have a cronograph and it's a dam shame i cant use it at my local indoor range.
 
View attachment 1033124 Well I tested the lyman data which according to western I started at max.... ***View attachment 1033125
Okay I found an old note card from 2003 in the index:
Taurus 66 4" - 160gr. LRN @ 13gr/#52 No.9 avg.1190fps

I think that's a minimum or near minimum load for that bullet. #52 is the old red Lee dipper. I don't note the primer but I typically use SRP in slow pistol powders (except 2400) for magnums. If I kept the card and didn't note any problems, it's a good load.
Bullets.jpg
The good news: you can cast a 158-160gr LRN pretty easily. The bad news: I still have a box of those bullets and they're cast out of Linotype. Very hard stuff. I doubt that will make a big difference but just thought you'd need to know. IIRC, using a very high brisance primer makes a big difference.
 
Okay I found an old note card from 2003 in the index:
Taurus 66 4" - 160gr. LRN @ 13gr/#52 No.9 avg.1190fps

I think that's a minimum or near minimum load for that bullet. #52 is the old red Lee dipper. I don't note the primer but I typically use SRP in slow pistol powders (except 2400) for magnums. If I kept the card and didn't note any problems, it's a good load.
View attachment 1033164
The good news: you can cast a 158-160gr LRN pretty easily. The bad news: I still have a box of those bullets and they're cast out of Linotype. Very hard stuff. I doubt that will make a big difference but just thought you'd need to know. IIRC, using a very high brisance primer makes a big difference.
I have considered and briefly discussed testing 4227 with an srp. In 308 my lrp seem to get it going.
 
Velocity seems sufficient with 125 grain XTPs and it can push the wadcutters I have too. I moved to Winchester 231 for my 9mm except for HP and Lehigh loads, so I have most of a pound left. I have some 2400 too but have to split that with my cast 30-30 loads.
 
Velocity seems sufficient with 125 grain XTPs and it can push the wadcutters I have too. I moved to Winchester 231 for my 9mm except for HP and Lehigh loads, so I have most of a pound left. I have some 2400 too but have to split that with my cast 30-30 loads.
A lot of people seem to go very lite with the 357 bullets. I dont see a reason for anything less than a 140 and honestly I have one box of unused xtps bought on a whim. I figured I may keep them with a max load for sd but based on how often i practice and how my sights are adjusted i would be best off just using my cast loads. I'm even considering getting some 180xtps or fnsp for hunting, if i ever try that. My other mold is a 180 it just seems better suited to the lever which i should have late November. The game starts all over when that shows up.
 
That’s true. I use it for comparison purposes since everyone has a load for it. I will have to dig a little more for to see what CFE Pistol might be best suited to do.
 
Some manuals caution against using them while others just say it's not necessary, with 2400.

Several years back it was in "Handloader" magazine where I read that Alliant(distributor of 2400) cautioned against the use of magnum primers with 2400. IME, the .357 case is too small for good performance from IMR4227, even with a compressed load. Best performance for me in .357, has always been with H110/W296, with 2400 coming in a close 2nd. Now with larger cases and heavy bullets, IMR4227 can really shine. It is my go to hunting powder for my .44 mag carbines and .460 revolver. Altho it does not give the top velocities like H110/W296, it is very accurate and very consistent.
 
Anyone try CFE Pistol in 357? I have some and a new 357 Blackhawk.

Yes. It is my go to for 148 grain Hi-Tek coated cast double ended wad cutters, bevel base. Accurate with low velocity spreads and it gives the wad cutters a little thump. Standard primers.

38 Special cases, 148gr DEWCBB COAL 1.25”, roll crimp, 5.0 grains CFE Pistol
Velocity / barrel length
925 / 3 inch
950 / 4 inch
1020 / 6 inch

About 25,000 psi and absolute joy to shoot out of the two guns shown, out to 100 yards, clay pigeons on the berm, off hand. Hits like a sledge hammer and punches thru deer.

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Yes. It is my go to for 148 grain Hi-Tek coated cast double ended wad cutters, bevel base. Accurate with low velocity spreads and it gives the wad cutters a little thump. Standard primers.

38 Special cases, 148gr DEWCBB COAL 1.25”, roll crimp, 5.0 grains CFE Pistol
Velocity / barrel length
925 / 3 inch
950 / 4 inch
1020 / 6 inch

About 25,000 psi and absolute joy to shoot out of the two guns shown, out to 100 yards, clay pigeons on the berm, off hand. Hits like a sledge hammer and punches thru deer.

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Firstly, NICE revolvers!
Second, I'm curious about using CFE - Copper Fouling Eliminator - powder with a coated bullet. Was it just handy or do the CFE chemicals make it burn better some other way?
Third, thanks for the .38Spl loads but do you have info for .357Magnum?

Love the Colt. OP's are my favorite of the older generations.
 
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