357 load development and casual observations

[Ru4real]

Third, thanks for the .38Spl loads but do you have info for .357Magnum?

At about 25,000 psi, 5 grains of CFE Pistol results in 357 magnum loads. I just happen to load them in 38 special brass at 1.25” overall length. Doing so allows the roll crimp, which is the key to consistently low velocity spreads and accuracy.

It took a fair amount of development on my part to get this load. I designed it specifically for the Colt, but every 357 I own shoots it well.

 

[AJC1]

I was positive I had posted the unique target but maybe not. 6.6,7.0 and 7.2 were all good. This series is really my first real shooting with a revolver. My grandfather owned it so I got to shoot it maybe 3 times in my life previously so I'm still coming to terms with a new to me pistol and something more powerful than 45acp.

 

[Charlie98]

When I loaded .357, I used Unique almost exclusively... it always served me well, and gave me some very accurate handloads. Like you, I pretty much stuck with 158grn bullets... preferring them over lighter bullets. I did try some 180's at one point... and found them to be very accurate. I was trying to find a Marlin 1894 to put those little heavies to good use, but life got in the way and I eventually abandoned .38/.357 altogether. I will say a heavy charge of Unique in a medium frame .357... let alone a small frame... isn't very fun to shoot, so if velocity is your goal, you'll have to keep working with the slow burners.

 

[AJC1]

When I loaded .357, I used Unique almost exclusively... it always served me well, and gave me some very accurate handloads. Like you, I pretty much stuck with 158grn bullets... preferring them over lighter bullets. I did try some 180's at one point... and found them to be very accurate. I was trying to find a Marlin 1894 to put those little heavies to good use, but life got in the way and I eventually abandoned .38/.357 altogether. I will say a heavy charge of Unique in a medium frame .357... let alone a small frame... isn't very fun to shoot, so if velocity is your goal, you'll have to keep working with the slow burners.

My primary goal is to have a few good loads to fall back on when my primary powder is not available. I figured I would test everything I had on hand that was realistic. I'm not going to work up tightgroup or ramshot competion even though I have them. The slower powders were ment for the carbine but I'm trying to expand my total knowledge and experience.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

My primary goal is to have a few good loads to fall back on when my primary powder is not available. I figured I would test everything I had on hand that was realistic. I'm not going to work up tightgroup or ramshot competion even though I have them. The slower powders were ment for the carbine but I'm trying to expand my total knowledge and experience.

And THAT, ladies and gentlepeople, is (in my humble opinion) the line separating a REloader from a HANDloader.

 

[AJC1]

Got a new powder to try here we go again....

 

[Bfh_auto]

Got a new powder to try here we go again....View attachment 1034934

Do yourself a favor and try it in 45 ACP, 40 S&w etc.
Be prepared for erratic ignition in 38 or 357.

 

[AJC1]

Do yourself a favor and try it in 45 ACP, 40 S&w etc.
Be prepared for erratic ignition in 38 or 357.

Well that's a dam shame. I do have 45 but I was hoping to expand my options. Can you explain erratic.

 

[.45Coltguy]

A lot of people seem to go very lite with the 357 bullets. I dont see a reason for anything less than a 140 and honestly I have one box of unused xtps bought on a whim. I figured I may keep them with a max load for sd but based on how often i practice and how my sights are adjusted i would be best off just using my cast loads. I'm even considering getting some 180xtps or fnsp for hunting, if i ever try that. My other mold is a 180 it just seems better suited to the lever which i should have late November. The game starts all over when that shows up.

You'll likely enjoy that 180gr in a carbine. I load Missouri rnfp coated 180's over 11.5gr 2400 for my Henry with 20" barrel. Very accurate and MV is around 1100 fps. It's a shooter.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Well that's a dam shame. I do have 45 but I was hoping to expand my options. Can you explain erratic.

In 38s I randomly got squibs. In 357 I had large velocity variations.
I gave up after testing 125s in 357, 125s &158s in 38 special.
I had better suited powders. So I went somewhere else.
If you find good results. Be sure to post it.

 

[DMW1116]

Do yourself a favor and try it in 45 ACP, 40 S&w etc.
Be prepared for erratic ignition in 38 or 357.

Well crap. I guess we’ll see what happens. It’s not on top of my list but I have a fair bit left over.

 

[AJC1]

In 38s I randomly got squibs. In 357 I had large velocity variations.
I gave up after testing 125s in 357, 125s &158s in 38 special.
I had better suited powders. So I went somewhere else.
If you find good results. Be sure to post it.

Maybe I should test with a mag primer then. Sounds like an ignition issue, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Maybe I should test with a mag primer then. Sounds like an ignition issue, thanks for the heads up.

I've gotten to the point of using Magnum primers whenever I use a ball powder.

 

[AJC1]

This makes no sense the slowest powder #9 is the slowest max speed and #5 is the most efficient and the fastest. I hate when pressure is not listed in these scenarios because I cant see the test results.

 

[AJC1]

I've gotten to the point of using Magnum primers whenever I use a ball powder.

So you still had issues with a mag primer. What was the load range that had issues. Was it on the low end, or the full range. I had considered it may resolve on top and acknowledge that it acts like 296.

 

[Bfh_auto]

So you still had issues with a mag primer. What was the load range that had issues. Was it on the low end, or the full range. I had considered it may resolve on top and acknowledge that it acts like 296.

38 had squibs till plus p level with 158s.
357 was poor accuracy and random velocities through the charge range. I don't recall exactly what they were. It was 5 years ago.
Since then I've found Autocomp to be a very good powder for low blast light bullet loads that still give excellent velocity.
CFE-P is my favorite 40 powder. So I'm not a hater of it.

 

[Bfh_auto]

This makes no sense the slowest powder #9 is the slowest max speed and #5 is the most efficient and the fastest. I hate when pressure is not listed in these scenarios because I cant see the test results.View attachment 1035105

I also hate not having pressure data. Try a Lyman manual. Also powder manufacturer websites usually have pressure data.

 

[AJC1]

I also hate not having pressure data. Try a Lyman manual. Also powder manufacturer websites usually have pressure data.

This speer data does not match anything else hornaday or lyman.

 

[Bfh_auto]

This speer data does not match anything else hornaday or lyman.

I have a cfe223 load in 35 Whelen that Lee said will be 3100 fps. It's only 2550. I don't trust Speer data.

 

[lordpaxman]

While I didn’t have squibs like @Bfh_auto , I had high SDs with 125 plated in .38, lower SDs with 158 plated in .38. This was just a CCI 500 primer, not magnum, medium roll crimp in a 686. I needed to be at the high end of Hodgdon’s load data. Grouping wasn’t too bad but there are slower powders that do better for .38. I just wanted load data for various calibers for CFEP as it’s one of the slower powders I have. Good luck.

 

[BWS]

I know,"back in the day we usta".....

Referring to running down to the gun store and snagging a lb of powder on a hunch. Them days is gone but,Blue Dot can produce some jawdrop accuracy around the 80-90% up the power chart(not load density). Coupled with bullet weight,at about that same point.... so a 160 in 357, 200g in 44.

No,not saying go snag a can,ain't that easy these days. And the loading window is small,to very small compared to say,2400. But right at that 3/4-7/8 power factor,it can be downright scary accurate.

 

[AJC1]

I know,"back in the day we usta".....

Referring to running down to the gun store and snagging a lb of powder on a hunch. Them days is gone but,Blue Dot can produce some jawdrop accuracy around the 80-90% up the power chart(not load density). Coupled with bullet weight,at about that same point.... so a 160 in 357, 200g in 44.

No,not saying go snag a can,ain't that easy these days. And the loading window is small,to very small compared to say,2400. But right at that 3/4-7/8 power factor,it can be downright scary accurate.

these were my options. Hs-6 was a 50/50 choice...

 

[Bfh_auto]

these were my options. Hs-6 was a 50/50 choice...
View attachment 1035180

They have some of my favorite rifle powders. But the pistol is pretty lacking.
Where are you located?

 

[AJC1]

Memphis.

 

[2ndtimer]

Another powder to try (if you can find some) is Power Pistol. I had grabbed a 4 pound keg of it during the previous panic when my usual W-296/H-110, Unique, Universal Clays, Win 231/HP-38 were nowhere to be found. A little slower than Unique, it shoots really well with just under 8.0 gr of powder (about half of my usual charge of W-296, so economical) and heavier cast bullets, the best being a commercially cast Keith Style semi-wadcutters listed as 170 gr but actual weight closer to 165 gr. Loses 100 to 150 FPS compared to the 158 gr JSP with 296, but seems equally accurate.