357 load development and casual observations

Maximum for the Berrys is 1200fps I think? I was kinda hoping for at least a 1000fps. Just not sure why the loading isn’t making the advertised velocities.
I go up to listed max just to get a data set for comparison. I'm playing with heavies right now and will probably have 170s going that speed. You may contact hogden with a data set and see if your results are way off expected. Did you happen to get a verification load across the crono the same day?. My 13.7 load runs right about 1200 so I'll shoot one of those to see if I get what I'm supposed to.
 
Maximum for the Berrys is 1200fps I think? I was kinda hoping for at least a 1000fps. Just not sure why the loading isn’t making the advertised velocities.
To get the same velocities you have to use the same bullet - a Meister 158gr cast (18BHN) LSWC - and the same firearm - an unvented universal receiver with 10” test barrel. You will also need to use the same chronograph and lab equipment. Trying to impose lab equipment figures on field testing is a no-go. Use the most accurate load that gets you a useful velocity for the intended purpose and don’t worry about what the ballistic engineer got in the testing lab. It’s not a realistic comparison.
 
Trying to impose lab equipment figures on field testing is a no-go. Use the most accurate load that gets you a useful velocity for the intended purpose and don’t worry about what the ballistic engineer got in the testing lab. It’s not a realistic comparison.

When I'm dealing with new(ish) reloaders, this is the most difficult point to get across.

The data set is just that: a data set. On that day, with that lot of powder in that barrel. At those atmospheric conditions, with that individual package of bullets.

It's a guide, not Holy Writ. One's individual intelligence, and an understanding of what one is trying to do is critical, absolutely essential, to the process.

A manual is generally thought to be a safe data set, but it is up to the loader to understand what he/she is doing, and take responsibility for the outcome.
 
Minimum suggest load is 5.4gr for 1123fps. Mine at 6.4gr is 15% higher charge closer to 1300fps advertised. Yet my AVG is 873fps, tested two different times? I understand what you guys are saying about it not being the exact same just a guide. But color me inexperienced that I thought a 3-400 fps difference from published data was odd.
 
Minimum suggest load is 5.4gr for 1123fps. Mine at 6.4gr is 15% higher charge closer to 1300fps advertised. Yet my AVG is 873fps, tested two different times? I understand what you guys are saying about it not being the exact same just a guide. But color me inexperienced that I thought a 3-400 fps difference from published data was odd.
My 1200 fps load with #9 is roughly 150fps slower than Lyman where it came from. I don't know what optimum conditions they use but I assume part of my reduction is pc over lube....
 
. But color me inexperienced that I thought a 3-400 fps difference from published data was odd.

That is certainly more divergence than I am accustomed seeing. Perhaps you have a "slow" barrel. Perhaps your cylinder gap is wider than optimal.
Perhaps your lot of powder is different. Perhaps your lot of primers have a bit more trouble lighting off the charge. Perhaps all 4 together, or something else.

I have fired two 4" S&W 38 revolvers with the same batch of ammo, same day; one right after the other. The M-64 gets almost 100 fps more than the M-10.
Why ? Dunno.
 
Minimum suggest load is 5.4gr for 1123fps. Mine at 6.4gr is 15% higher charge closer to 1300fps advertised. Yet my AVG is 873fps, tested two different times? I understand what you guys are saying about it not being the exact same just a guide. But color me inexperienced that I thought a 3-400 fps difference from published data was odd.
As others have pointed out, unless you are shooting a T/C Contender with a 10” barrel, you shouldn’t expect to approach numbers for a 10” closed breech test barrel. Also, consider that your Ruger Security Six was discontinued back in 1988, so yours has been in service for at least 34 years. If it has been fired a lot (particularly with hot 125 gr loads), it is reasonable to assume barrel wear and forcing cone erosion could also result in reduced velocity.
 
As others have pointed out, unless you are shooting a T/C Contender with a 10” barrel, you shouldn’t expect to approach numbers for a 10” closed breech test barrel. Also, consider that your Ruger Security Six was discontinued back in 1988, so yours has been in service for at least 34 years. If it has been fired a lot (particularly with hot 125 gr loads), it is reasonable to assume barrel wear and forcing cone erosion could also result in reduced velocity.
I'm also constantly having to remind myself that my Chrony needs a yard or more to read accurately. So what I'm seeing is a long jump from the muzzle and it's not exactly the most accurate device to begin with. But, it lets me know when I'm in the ballpark. I just need to know how close I am to what I've come to expect from my guns. My Colt Lawman saw a LOT of 125gr. Speers JHP and W296 back when I first got it. I thought that stuff was the coolest! I was horrified at what that combo did to my forcing cone and cylinder face but it still shoots fine. Ugly but effective. We have a lot in common. ;)
 
Minimum suggest load is 5.4gr for 1123fps. Mine at 6.4gr is 15% higher charge closer to 1300fps advertised. Yet my AVG is 873fps, tested two different times? I understand what you guys are saying about it not being the exact same just a guide. But color me inexperienced that I thought a 3-400 fps difference from published data was odd.

Handload long enough and you'll learn that there are discrepancies between any two similar firearms, loading manuals, what you think you should get untill you use a chronograph and read in magazines and the like. Lots of head scratching in the handloading world.
 
Minimum suggest load is 5.4gr for 1123fps. Mine at 6.4gr is 15% higher charge closer to 1300fps advertised. Yet my AVG is 873fps, tested two different times? I understand what you guys are saying about it not being the exact same just a guide. But color me inexperienced that I thought a 3-400 fps difference from published data was odd.

You need a baseline round to determine what your gun shoots with a known load. I suggest a factory load with published ballistics. If I were to recommend brands, it would be Federal and Remington 357 loads.

Factory ballistics will also vary from one brand to another. Some might be higher than published speeds, some might be lower, but at least you'll have a baseline for comparison. Then, if you gun is 'slow', you'll know it's the gun and not the ammo.
 
You need a baseline round to determine what your gun shoots with a known load. I suggest a factory load with published ballistics. If I were to recommend brands, it would be Federal and Remington 357 loads.

Factory ballistics will also vary from one brand to another. Some might be higher than published speeds, some might be lower, but at least you'll have a baseline for comparison. Then, if you gun is 'slow', you'll know it's the gun and not the ammo.

I don’t think the gun is “Slow” it certainly isn’t high octane performance tight gun but this isn’t the first handholds I’ve made for it. And I can’t remember what it is now but I checked the cylinder gap with a set of American made feeler gauges and remember being happy with my findings.

I’m just kinda starting to think that CFE-P isn’t a great powder for my applications.
 
I don’t think the gun is “Slow” it certainly isn’t high octane performance tight gun but this isn’t the first handholds I’ve made for it. And I can’t remember what it is now but I checked the cylinder gap with a set of American made feeler gauges and remember being happy with my findings.

I’m just kinda starting to think that CFE-P isn’t a great powder for my applications.
Cfep for 38/357 is not on my buy again list. The start load of 8.8 grains true blue was way better.
 
Cfep for 38/357 is not on my buy again list. The start load of 8.8 grains true blue was way better.

It was originally bought for 45ACP and have had mixed results there. Some of which is the learning curve for an auto pistol. But still, I want to use the powder up. So maybe I’ll keep using it just as a oversized .38
 
It was originally bought for 45ACP and have had mixed results there. Some of which is the learning curve for an auto pistol. But still, I want to use the powder up. So maybe I’ll keep using it just as a oversized .38
I'm burning mine up in 45acp with a 200 swc at a max charge at 1.2 oal. Works good there for me.
 
I'm burning mine up in 45acp with a 200 swc at a max charge at 1.2 oal. Works good there for me.

I think more of my problems with 45ACP are the learning curve for auto pistols. I like loading for my .357, does it fit in the cylinder? Yes. Good. You can shoot it.
 
FWIW CFE-P shot equal to W231 with light loads for accuracy. Both powders shot 125 grain cast and 148 grain HBWC under 1.5” at 25 yards. Both were very pleasant too. I keep HS-6 and 2400 for heavier loads. I will probably try Accurate #9 or Enforcer too if 2400 stays so rare.
 
FWIW CFE-P shot equal to W231 with light loads for accuracy. Both powders shot 125 grain cast and 148 grain HBWC under 1.5” at 25 yards. Both were very pleasant too. I keep HS-6 and 2400 for heavier loads. I will probably try Accurate #9 or Enforcer too if 2400 stays so rare.
Enforcer (a.k.a. Accurate 4100) is really good for heavy loads.
 
In today's round of trivia, how many rounds worth of powder is left after the chargemaster will no longer dispense accurate #9... well I got 31 and 10.6 grains left over... that I'm willing to toss.
 

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Had to go to the range and try two loads that I have been working on. Results were actually pretty good. I shot the 125XTP bullet out of the Model 73 24 inch barrel, over 8.0 grains of CFEP. Average fps was 1572, ES was 71 and SD was 20 over a 20 shot string.
WPR357mRifle125XTPCFEP8.0.jpg After the first 10 shots my SD was 6, should have quit right there for stats sake. Shoots point of aim. This is probably faster than this bullet was made for but I seem to like it.

The second load was 158 grain Speer HP Target bullet out of the same rifle over 13.1 grains of Shooters World Heavy Pistol. I shot 21 bullets at the below target and 4 more after data gathering to prove I could shoot into the raged hole for my buddy. Average fps was 1666, ES was 108 and SD was 27 over 21 shots.
WPR357mRifle158SpeerHPSWHP13.1.jpg
I think I will stop here with both of these loads. Both shoot point of aim at 50 yards and with factory irons. I can't complain about them. I do very much like both powders. Next load will be an experiment with Unique. Oh and I am using the Franklin Arsenal Intellidropper for powder measure. It has made a huge difference over my RCBS powder throw.
 
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Had to go to the range and try two loads that I have been working on. Results were actually pretty good. I shot the 125XTP bullet out of the Model 73 24 inch barrel, over 8.0 grains of CFEP. Average fps was 1572, ES was 71 and SD was 20 over a 20 shot string.
View attachment 1130987 After the first 10 shots my SD was 6, should have quit right there for stats sake. Shoots point of aim. This is probably faster than this bullet was made for but I seem to like it.

The second load was 158 grain Speer HP Target bullet out of the same rifle over 13.1 grains of Shooters World Heavy Pistol. I shot 21 bullets at the below target and 4 more after data gathering to prove I could shoot into the raged hole for my buddy. Average fps was 1666, ES was 108 and SD was 27 over 21 shots.
View attachment 1130988
I think I will stop here with both of these loads. Both shoot point of aim at 50 yards and with factory irons. I can't complain about them. I do very much like both powders. Next load will be an experiment with Unique. Oh and I am using the Franklin Arsenal Intellidropper for powder measure. It has made a huge difference over my RCBS powder throw.
I've also see high sd's with Heavy pistol. I am at some point going to need to test spp vs spm to test their claim that mag primers are not nessary. At very low charge weights it seems to give better burns than #9 but that transitions. I'm inclined to continue comparisons at 13.7 and in a 38-55 loading with a 180.
 
20230211_114152.jpg Tested my first loads with lil gun. The bullet for this side adventure was the 180xtp. I'm using cci 550 spms. I did not focus on shooting groups as I was checking for good ignition and heat based on the problematic reports. It was 45 and pretty windy so I didn't expect heat problems or observe any. The wind did push my group to the left a little, and they shot low as I didn't want to tweak juniors sights the weekend before his last practice. 13.0, 13.3, and 13.6 all tested good. I'll probably skip a few tenths and do the same thing with 14.p 14.3 and 14.6. There were absolutely no pressure signs and far less felt recoil than a max load of #9 and a 158 jhp. 20230211_114155.jpg
 
AD300E3A-4564-4828-88F5-84DE03A3597C.jpeg
818EA859-0D90-48A7-8A96-AF6BF88A4BEF.jpeg 9DE4ADAF-DCB1-449B-8295-190340DD0029.jpeg 4DABC082-3619-4CAA-A964-5FB6111521AA.jpeg A75D5DE6-AFDE-44D0-9095-03D5B2F2B604.jpeg Someone tell me I’m pulling shots. I don’t want to know my Blackhawk has a wonky chamber out of 6.

In order above:
Titegroup/Traded HBWC 148 gr
More Titegroup/Traded HBWC 148 gr
2400/MBC LSWC 158 gr
W231/Gallant RNFP 125 gr
CFEP/Gallant RNFP 125 gr

All shot from my Blackhawk at 25 yards rested on a bench.
 
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Ran my group of 10.2 10.4 and 10.6 bluedot loads with my 154 noe out of the carbine after junior got done with his match. The loads kept cleaning up as I went higher. I was shooting the steel animals as a practical test and the 10.6 load I believe is a winner. I will make up a full batch of 50 to play with next outing. I'm becoming fond of how practical and versatile BD is.
 
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