357 magnum fits in 38 Special revolver???

[FerFAL]

Of course not, or at least that’s what I thought.
I thought that the idea behind the 357 magnum case was lengthening the 38 so that the 357 would not fit in 38 revolvers, so I was a bit surprised when out of curiosity I dropped some 357 magnums into my Police Positive revolver, and saw that it drops in just like 38s. These are just normal, 124 gr. JHP 357 magnums, not some shorter projectile.
What’s all this about? I’m not crazy enough to try to shoot it, but I simply didn’t know that a Police Positive would take 357 magnum rounds.
This is the revolver I’m talking about:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282320
Anyone knows about this? maybe someone blowing up his Colt by actually shooting 357 magnums in a Police Positive Special? Why do they fit? I believed they were intended NOT to fit for safety reasons.

FerFAL

 

[PotatoJudge]

Yeah, it shouldn't do that. Were the rims of the 357 flush with the back of the cylinder?

I wonder if whoever cut back the barrel and put on the new sight also reamed out the cylinder for 357 mag.

38+P should be used sparingly in these guns, and never 357 magnum. Have you done the revolver checkout by Jim March that's a sticky at the top of this forum? If you have, was there any endshake? Does the sideplate fit the frame well or are there gaps? If you look where the rachet touches the frame can you see indentions made on the frame made by the rachet? You'll want to make sure the gun hasn't been damaged before shooting it more.

 

[Quoheleth]

Just because it might fit don't make it right! You can cram a 3" shotgun shell in a 2 3/4 chamber because of the space in the shorter chamber for the shell to "unfold" after it is fired. But try dropping the trigger on that 3" shell Barrel constriction = high pressure = Bad news + potential KB if it's a strong enough load.

Q

 

[FerFAL]

I didn’t push it in or anything, 357 magnums just drops in up to the rim on it’s own, just like with 38 specials. The gun closes perfectly with the 357s too.
Yes, I checked as the post says, and it’s ok, the cylinder gap is barely visible with a LED light, and it disappears when on total lockup.
I checked this gun al over, and there’s nothing wrong with it. After realizing this, I checked for cracks, bulges, on cylinder, barrel and forcing cone, an the gun is perfectly well.
I don’t get it.

FerFAL

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I wonder if whoever cut back the barrel and put on the new sight also reamed out the cylinder for 357 mag.

That's very likely. There was a time when the .357 was a no-no in some police departments. When these departments issued large-frame .38s (like the Colt Official Police), cops used to go down the the local gunstore and have their chambers reamed for .357.

Apparently whoever had this gun worked over wanted too much of a good thing.

 

[FerFAL]

Should I stop shooting it? There’s no visible deformation , crack line or anything else.
The back plate is in perfect condition, no visible wear (hell, even better than my Beretta 96 after only a few hundred rounds… what a piece of cra*!).
This gun used to belong to the Argentina Federal police. What do you guys suggest?

FerFAL

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Should I stop shooting it?

No -- but don't shoot .357s in it. It probably won't blow up on you, but you will shake it apart in short order. Stick with standard pressure (not +P) .38 Specials.

 

[elrod]

Some of you guys with a lot more experence than I will probably know, and this may not be the case, but Colt began the police positive production in 1907, long before the advent of the .357. Is it possible that the cylinder was milled without any need to make it impossible to insert a caliber that hadn't been invented yet? Just a thought.

 

[Quoheleth]

Chances are it'll be OK. When you take it out, only carry .38 ammo. DOn't take this one and a .357 out at the same time; double-check ammo before loading, etc.

Keep an eye on it, and if you notice any unusual wear, hang it up. If you're worried, take it to a good gunsmith who has a bore scope and have him check the cylinder & barrel from the inside out.

 

[FerFAL]

This Colt Police Positive was made in 1926.

FerFAL

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Colt began the police positive production in 1907, long before the advent of the .357. Is it possible that the cylinder was milled without any need to make it impossible to insert a caliber that hadn't been invented yet?

In 1907? Possible, but not likely. Throating (not milling) is done to promote accuracy, and Colt well knew how to make .38 Specials shoot accurately in 1907.

Let me point out that the .357 was designed to not chamber in a .38 Special, which indicates that .38 Special chambers were well standardized before the .357 appeared on the scene.

But when was this gun made?

 

[PotatoJudge]

Anybody know the history of Colt heat treatment around that time?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Anybody know the history of Colt heat treatment around that time?

Colt began heat treating cylinders in 1903, starting with, as I recall, the New Service. Within a couple of years all Colts had heat treated cylinders.

If that gun was made in 1926, it had a heat treated cylinder with standard throated chambers. Either the cylinder has been replaced or it has been reamed to accept .357s.

 

[yhtomit]

Small hi-jack here -- can you tell me about the autoloader above the oddly-chambered revolver? Handsome gun -- I like the finish on it, too.

timothy

 

[Jim March]

I'm with Vern: by all means shoot it, it's a fine gun and a good CCW piece even by today's standards. But keep an eye on it, do "the checkout" every 100 rounds or so, at least as far as cylinder play at full lockup is concerned.

I believe "the checkout" is very likely to catch any damage done previously by shooting 357s: frame cracks or stretching would show up in cylinder play and barrel/cylinder gap.

I would be very tempted to CCW that piece and if I did, I know *just* where I'd go for ammo: Buffalo Bore's new 158gr standard pressure 38 lead hollowpoint. Very likely to shoot point of aim on that gun, soft bullet that's easy on the forcing cone, mild peak pressure, very combat effective. That load might as well have been tailor made for your gun.

 

[PotatoJudge]

yhtomit, check out the link directly under the pic in the first post.

 

[elrod]

Vern Humphrey, Colt began manfacture of the first issue of the police positive in 1907 (Blue Book of Gun Values, 28th ed., pg 548). The reference also indicates hard rubber grips standard before1924, so if the grips pictured are original, there is an almost surety it was made with a heat treated cylinder. Don't we wish that gun could talk (It would probably tell me I got 'way too much time on my hands!)

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think you have a good carry piece there -- and if you've run the checks on it and it doesn't have problems, the original owner probably didn't actually shoot .357s in it, or at least not many.

 

[Hunter0924]

I have a Colt Official Police from 1939 and .357 magnum will not drop in the cylinder.

 

[FerFAL]

Here are some more pics.
See how the 357 rounds set all the way up to the rim, and how it looks up front, almost reaching the end of the cylinder. I also took one of the inside, it’s a bit dirty, my fault ( big chunk of lead on the barrel) but otherwise you can see it’s in good condition.

The Argentine police shield makes it extra

FerFAL

 

[Jeff F]

I was told a long time ago that some old .38 spl revolvers could chamber light bullet .357 loads but to never fire them in the .38. Back when the .357 came out there was not much in the line of 124 grain bullets. I doubt if that old colt would chamber some 158s unless the chambers have been worked on.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The way those rounds fit in the cylinder I'm tempted to say the cylinder was changed. There is considerable space between the front of the Magnum round and the end of the cylinder.

 

[RON in PA]

Just a bit of trivia, the first Colt swing-out revolvers (1889, 1892) chambered in 38 Long Colt had their cylinders bored straight through and will accept .357 mags. Don't do it.

 

[Walkalong]

Small hi-jack here -- can you tell me about the autoloader above the oddly-chambered revolver? Handsome gun -- I like the finish on it, too.

Yea, m too.

 

[NORTEXED]

yhtomit, that, I believe, is a Colt Model M (1908) chambered in .380 ACP. It is a very pretty example. I love the little Colt autos from that time period, mine was Manuf. in 1935