357 Maximum Single Shot ?

[oldsnow]

I live and hunt in Delaware where you can only hunt deer this a shotgun, handgun or muzzleloader. I hunt with a Savage smokeless muzzleloader and a T/C 12" 357 maximum in pistol season now.

Next year it looks like they are going to add rifles with straight wall pistol cases, with a max case length of 1.82 in 357 calibers up to 50 calibers. So I ordered a 16.25 long, 357 maximum from MGM for a T/C Encore.

I load my 357 max contender with a roll crimp.

Is it necessary to roll crimp a 357 max cartage for a (single shot) handgun or rifle?

 

[someguy2800]

No it is not necessary to roll crimp but doesn't hurt. I have a 13" MGM contender barrel that I deer hunted with this year.

 

[someguy2800]

Just curious, what load do you shoot in your max?

 

[Blue68f100]

Depends on the powder your using, and some require a mag primer (H110/W296) to go with it. It's purpose is to help it build up pressure quicker which will make the load more consistent.

 

[marchboom]

Depends on the powder your using, and some require a mag primer (H110/W296) to go with it. It's purpose is to help it build up pressure quicker which will make the load more consistent.

I would not crimp for a single shot pistol. But, as stated above, a crimp might just make the load more consistent. I would try no crimp, mild crimp and a heavier crimp. See which one gives you better accuracy. Keep a close eye for signs of pressure.

I used to shoot a .357 Max in a Dan Wesson for silhouette competition. Great cartridge!

 

[fallout mike]

How big a process is it to take a Handi rifle in .357mag and convert it to .357max?

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

How big a process is it to take a Handi rifle in .357mag and convert it to .357max?

Ream the chamber.
As an alternative, most Handi-rifles will accept the 360 DW (Dan Wesson), a cartridge that splits the difference betwixt the 357 Mag and Max.
I have a 357 Handi-rifle that will chamber the 360 DW, without modifications. I have yet to work with it, but will get to it.
360DW Brass is available from Starline.

 

[oldsnow]

Just curious, what load do you shoot in your max?

Accurate 1680, 27Grs. under a Hornady 180 Gr. ssp bullet, with a CCI magnum primer.

 

[fallout mike]

How expensive is it to ream the chamber? I've always been intrigued by this round. .357mag is my favorite round to shoot in handguns. I'm been wanting a Handi rifle in that round. Sounds like if I ream it to .357max I can still shoot magnum loads and get to indulge myself in max loadings as well.

I'm sure the brass is a bit tricky to find at times.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I don't know how much it would cost to ream the chamber to 357 Max. I've never done it, or had it done. I can't imagine it would be prohibitive, it's just a matter of lengthening an existing chamber.
There is a subsection on GBO forum - Greybeard Outdoors - that deals specifically with Handi-rifles and their modifications. I would suspect that one could track down an individual capable of doing that mod, by starting there.
I have toyed with the idea of purchasing a reamer myself - I would think Dave Mason, or is it Manson ?, would be a good place to start for that - but in the end, I'm not that interested in modifying the rifle.
Actually, the Handi-rifle belongs to my MUCH better half, and so far, she has no interest whatsoever in shooting anything heavier than a 180gr 357 Mag load in it. So, my interest in modifying that rifle begins and ends with her say so.
As for brass, I had thought that Starline carried 357 Max, but I just looked, and it's not listed.

 

[fallout mike]

It may be one of their once a year run calibers. Thanks for the info.

 

[oldsnow]

How big a process is it to take a Handi rifle in .357mag and convert it to .357max?

Google, Mike Bellm

 

[DWFan]

You can seat the 180gr Hornady XTP to the lower cannelure in the .360 Dan Wesson case and have almost the same powder capacity as that bullet seated to the upper cannelure in the Maximum case. (Approx. .075" difference in OAL between the two.) Another bullet to look at is the 180gr WLN+P-GC from Beartooth with a seating depth of .290" to maximize (excuse the pun) the .360 DW.

 

[Mn Fats]

Next year it looks like they are going to add rifles with straight wall pistol cases, with a max case length of 1.82 in 357 calibers up to 50 calibers.

Side note- I've read about ridiculous state restrictions like this. Why? Who comes up with this garbage and what purpose does it serve? Im sure its been covered here on thr, but come on now. With a carbine length barrel in 357 max., your coming up on 35 remington, a bottle neck rifle cartridge.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

To Mn Fats: apparently the folks who regulate Delaware hunting consider Delaware to be so flat and urbanized that those long range bottle neck rifle cartridges are too dangerous. Makes me glad I was born in a state with mountains and expanses of forest.

 

[redbullitt]

I like the 357 max. Good choice! Most of the similar things I have shot tend to be more consistent with a crimp fwiw.

 

[Grumulkin]

Is it necessary to roll crimp a 357 max cartage for a (single shot) handgun or rifle?

I don't crimp anything to be shot in a single shot rifle or handgun with a couple of exceptions. Some loads with Barnes bullets seem to do better with a crimp. I don't crimp such things as 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 444 Marlin, 375 H&H Magnum, etc.

 

[someguy2800]

For my 444 and 357 max single shots I just crimp enough to iron out the flare and just barely roll it into the groove. Brass is expensive for both so I try not to overwork the brass too much.

 

[GarrettJ]

Is it necessary to roll crimp a 357 max cartage for a (single shot) handgun or rifle?

The best answer is for you to go find out what your barrel and load like.

For example. I had zeroed this load at 100 yds. Then I backed up to 200 and fired 10-shot groups. One with a roll crimp, and one crimped just enough to remove the flair from the case mouth. These were all shot from sandbags through my 14" .357 Mag Contender barrel.

It seems to prefer the crimp. It's also interesting to see how much drop I get at that distance.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Garrett, at what velocity were those XTPs flying ?

 

[GarrettJ]

Garrett, at what velocity were those XTPs flying ?

I was just digging through my notes. Looks like they were a little over 1600 fps. Velocity between the two was essentially the same.

 

[GarrettJ]

Side note- I've read about ridiculous state restrictions like this. Why? Who comes up with this garbage and what purpose does it serve?

I'm from Out West, where deer, elk, and similar critters are hunted with rifles. Shotguns are for birds. And I suppose you can use them on rabbits and other small game if you are really so bad you can't hit anything with a .22 rifle.

And then I moved to the Midwest. It seems from here all the way to the Atlantic, the notion is if you shoot a projectile more aerodynamic than a pumpkin, it will travel a minimum of 20 miles passing through no less than a dozen schoolyards full of children along the way.

Michigan recently started allowing straight wall cartridges in rifles in the "shotgun zone". But they seem to want nothing with more practical range than a shotgun slug. There are minimum bore diameter requirements (.35 cal and above), as well as minimum and maximum case lengths.

So as an academic exercise, I find it interesting to see just how far I can go, while staying within the rules.

Like a .357 Mag with a .30 cal sabot. Or a .45-70 case shortened to just below the max allowable dimension.

So far the short .45-70 shows promise, but I haven't been able to get the sabot rounds to shoot anywhere near accurate enough.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Sabots, in my experience are a lost cause.
I have three .45/70's, so I speak from experience.
Load the Hornady 325gr FTX over 48.0gr of H4198. This will net you 2,100-2,200fps. Sighted in for 150yds, you're down about 6" at 200. Beyond that, you'll need a range finder and ballistic app on your smartphone.
A friend has property in Illinois. He bought a Browning '78 when the rules changed. I worked up a load for him. 48.0 rung his bell with curved metal butt plate. 46.5 was all he could stand. Gets 1,850fps from 18.5" GuideGun. 1,975 from his bbl.
He ended up using a 340gr Lee over 21.5gr #2400. I call it my .45/70 squirrel load. 3-shots, one hole at 50yds. He killed a "meat" doe. DRT. HIS son used it to take a nice 8-Pt next day. DRT. I sighted him +3" at 50yds. Kills were 70-90yds. About like the Federal 7/8oz sabot slug load I use in a Savage M220F 20ga on a shotgun only area. Dropped a 150lb 8pt'r last Sat at 59yds lased. Bang flop. But, did have a pass through lung shot on 7pt'r previous Wed (week plus ago) I lost due to blood trail. He ran 250yds past last blood. 180deg from where I last saw him. 30+buzzards showed me where he was 2days later. Never would have believed he could have made it that far with two 1/2" holes in him... 3" above and behind heart. 110yd shot.
I now carry my Nikon pocket laser range finder!
We also have a 4pt or better on one side rule. 2-bucks, 10does. Have too look CLOSE, as I've only seen 3-does since beginning of M/L season in mid Oct. all but two I've shot have been spikes, fork, or 6-pt.
I don't hunt horns, either, only freezer filler...

 

[Varminterror]

Load the Hornady 325gr FTX over 48.0gr of H4198. This will net you 2,100-2,200fps. Sighted in for 150yds, you're down about 6" at 200. Beyond that, you'll need a range finder and ballistic app on your smartphone

Expanding with additional data for 45-70 and the 325 FTX. From a Marlin Guide Gun, the factory load runs 1795fps average for me, easily replicated with Varget or 4198. Zeroed at 100yrds, 125yrds is within 2", and every 25yrds from 150-250 is then 5, 10, 15, 22, and 30". It's a lot more manageable than it seems.

 

[Captcurt]

I have seen a few Maximums on Gun Broker lately. The H&R Handi-rifle is very easy to convert.