357 Maximum??

[oldsnow]

just got an MGM 357 maximum barrel, 16-1/4" long 1x16 twist and have it on a T/C Encore. I am going to use this to hunt white-tailed deer. I am getting ready to reload for this 357 max. What powder and bullet would you recommend for this barrel?

 

[WestKentucky]

Curious to the choice in chambering. Are you in a "straight wall only" state?

And from my understanding you can run from mild to wild with the max. I would probably stick to traditional mag bullets driven faster by a medium-slow powder, but that fits my needs because I would be looking at trying to find 150 yd max range. If your hunting thick woods then I would go heavy 180-200gr range to gain some penetration. I would hate to rely on it to shrug off impacts against small sticks and such in a woods environment, but heavier bullets will generally handle those impacts with less deflection. Rifle bullets are an option but I doubt they are a good option because you aren't going to maintain sufficient velocity over very much range. I may be wrong on that part.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would load either a 180gr or 200gr bullet with AA5744 or AA1680 for your T/C Encore. With a 200gr bullet and AA1680 you can achieve performance coming close to the 35 Remington. Give the 200gr FTX bullet a try.

 

[oldsnow]

Curious to the choice in chambering. Are you in a "straight wall only" state?

Yes, little old flat and overpopulated Delaware.

 

[Varminterror]

180grn Speer Hotcor, with as much H110/W296 as you can get under it.

ETA: With the Max in a long barreled Encore, you should be about the same speed as or a touch faster than what I get out of 357/44 B&D in a 7.5" Redhawk, quite formidable as a whitetail load.

 

[someguy2800]

I have a 13" 357 maximum contender. I've had my best results with a 180gr hornady XTP with a stout load of H110/296 and a small rifle magnum primer. 158 grain bullets such as sierra JFP and XTP's make good plinking bullets but the 357 maximum will drive them fast enough that they fragment when they hit something. I've not personally tested the speer 180 FP but have read that it will not expand below about 1800 fps. Varminterror do you have anything to add on that? I think a 180-200 grain gas check hard cast would also work well but haven't tried it. One thing to note is that a 357 maximum in a strong action can develop enough pressure that you can just about turn some revolver bullets inside out. Some of them don't particularly like 60,000 psi as I have found out. The best ones I've tested for expansion are the 180 xtp and 158 sierra JFP at 1800-1900 fps. You will be able to drive both well over 2000 if you try.

I've tried 2400, 296, 1680, 2015, 4198, and RL7 for powders. 296 has been the most accurate with every bullet I've tried and gives great velocity. In my gun enough 296 to fill up the case just to the base of the bullet has been good with every bullet I've tried. 1680 will edge out 296 a tiny bit on velocity but requires heavily compressed loads to do it and the muzzle blast is tremendous and accuracy has not been as good as 296 in my gun. 2400 is also a good powder but the velocity will be down a good bit and you have to be careful as it is fast enough to over pressure a 357 max if you load it too hot. All the others I listed above are too slow to work correctly in 357 max. I have found that the 357 max has a very very narrow range of powders that work correctly. Your on your own for load data. All the load data listed in the manuals is for revolver pressures and are anemic for what you can do in a contender or encore.

 

[Varminterror]

158 grain bullets such as sierra JFP and XTP's make good plinking bullets but the 357 maximum will drive them fast enough that they fragment when they hit something.

Yup - the Max in a longer barrel or the 357/44 are kind of a no-man's land for bullets, they'll tear apart most pistol bullets. Bullet failures might be ok for small game hunting, but for deer, I want something harder.

I've not personally tested the speer 180 FP but have read that it will not expand below about 1800 fps. Varminterror do you have anything to add on that?

I haven't recovered a Hotcor from a 357/44 yet to measure expansion, and I never used them in the Max Contender (Hornady SSP-SP, now discontinued). But based on wound cavity, I'm getting expansion.

I spoke extensively with Speer before I built my 357/44. I had shot the Max off and on for over 10yrs before I built the B&D, so I knew the struggle to find appropriate bullets was real. I had the additional "frustration" of needing to draw the bullets to .357" for my Redhawk, so I was concerned with jacket integrity and core separation on game. Everything has been hunky doree so far for me. Love the bullet.

I do use the 158 and 180 XTP's for practice loads. I can't get the 180 XTP to the same speeds I can push the Hotcor, as oddly as that might seem - I can push the rifle bullet a lot harder before my primers cry uncle. I also have another 357mag standard cylinder for my Redhawk, so I can run 38 and 357mag practice loads too.

 

[someguy2800]

Yup - the Max in a longer barrel or the 357/44 are kind of a no-man's land for bullets, they'll tear apart most pistol bullets. Bullet failures might be ok for small game hunting, but for deer, I want something harder.



I haven't recovered a Hotcor from a 357/44 yet to measure expansion, and I never used them in the Max Contender (Hornady SSP-SP, now discontinued). But based on wound cavity, I'm getting expansion.

I spoke extensively with Speer before I built my 357/44. I had shot the Max off and on for over 10yrs before I built the B&D, so I knew the struggle to find appropriate bullets was real. I had the additional "frustration" of needing to draw the bullets to .357" for my Redhawk, so I was concerned with jacket integrity and core separation on game. Everything has been hunky doree so far for me. Love the bullet.

I do use the 158 and 180 XTP's for practice loads. I can't get the 180 XTP to the same speeds I can push the Hotcor, as oddly as that might seem - I can push the rifle bullet a lot harder before my primers cry uncle. I also have another 357mag standard cylinder for my Redhawk, so I can run 38 and 357mag practice loads too.

What kind of impact velocities are you getting with the 357/44 and the 180 hot cores?

 

[Varminterror]

I can coax it to leave a touch over 2000, at 100, it's a touch over 17, and it'll be about 13 at my 250yrd objective range.

ETA: pressure is HIGH for this load.

 

[someguy2800]

I can coax it to leave a touch over 2000, at 100, it's a touch over 17, and it'll be about 13 at my 250yrd objective range.

ETA: pressure is HIGH for this load.

What I was getting at is what velocity do you think it expands at if you had to guess based on your experience shooting game with it? That velocity is pretty phenomenal for a 7.5" barrel.

 

[oldsnow]

This is good stuff. Thanks for all the good response. I have 1680 and 4227, plus about 150 Hornady 180 gr. SSP's and I just got a box of 140 gr. Hornady FTX bullets. I was wondering about the 1x16 with the 140 gr. FTX bullets. I will be working most of the summer, with this rifle getting ready for next deer season. Thanks again.

 

[someguy2800]

The 140 ftx is probably going to be too fragile for deer hunting. 1680 and 4227 will work well.

 

[Varminterror]

Are you interested in more of the 180 SSP-SP’s?

 

[someguy2800]

Deleted

 

[wrench459]

You could use a online calculator to get a good guess of bullet rotation speed.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_twist_rule

 

[Patocazador]

I have a .357/.44 in a Blackhawk and a Contender. The old Remington 150 gr SP is my bullet of choice in the Contender. I've only shot one deer with it but it appears to have expanded nicely. Maybe you could find some of these and give them a try. (NO, I don't have any to sell.)

 

[GarrettJ]

Also take a look at Lil' Gun. I can get a 180 XTP over 2100 fps with a 16" MGM barrel. A 140 gr. FTX will go over 2400 fps. That one might make an interesting varmint load if one were so inclined.

I can't seem to find 140 FTXs lately, though. Must be Hornady does them in batches, and hasn't run that one for a while.

 

[GarrettJ]

All the load data listed in the manuals is for revolver pressures and are anemic for what you can do in a contender or encore.

Sierra and a couple others have single-shot data, developed with a Contender.

 

[someguy2800]

Sierra and a couple others have single-shot data, developed with a Contender.

The question is are there loads at sammi pressure? A 357 max in a contender is safe to run at 223 pressures with rifle primers but the saami max pressure is only 40,000. The case dimensions are basically a straight wall 223 with a rim and the brass has a thick web. Would you mind taking a picture of there load data and posting it? I've collected a bunch of 357 max data but I don't have the Sierra book.

 

[GarrettJ]

I've got T/C data in Sierra (5th ed? I'll have to check) and Hornady 4th ed. Unfortunately, neither list pressures.

It's interesting coloring to their revolver loads. Some loads are a grain or two higher for a given powder/bullet combo with the T/C data, but others are a half grain lower.

 

[someguy2800]

Thank you!

 

[oldsnow]

Thank you, GarrettaJ!