.357 powder question

[Mr_Flintstone]

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that in loading 140 & 158 gr .357 magnum for max performance out of my Henry Rifle with a 20" barrel, I would get the best results with slow(er) powders. The two I have been using with good results so far are IMR-4227 and H110.

Are there any other good powders that might squeeze a little more performance out of a long barrel where the charge will still fit in a .357 magnum case?

 

[ray15]

You need slow (for pistol) powders for max .357 magnum performance regardless of the arm being used. H110 works great. You might also consider Alliant 300-MP. Many of the .357 carbine users here favor it - it appears to be a touch slower than H110.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Lil'gun work very well in carbines.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

You need slow (for pistol) powders for max .357 magnum performance regardless of the arm being used. H110 works great. You might also consider Alliant 300-MP. Many of the .357 carbine users here favor it - it appears to be a touch slower than H110.

I looked this up. It's pretty impressive. According to the manuals, it produces just a hair move velocity in 125 grain bullets from a 10" barrel, but 158 gr and 170 gr bullets out of a 10" get about a 100-150 fps boost over H110. The manual didn't list rifle length barrels, but they might get a couple hundred fps boost as well.

 

[Jeff H]

Depends on the bullet, but when I was loading lead 158 grain bullets, I got the best accuracy out of a reduced charge of 2400 in a 20" carbine. Full power loads, the accuracy was crap with lead bullets. My guess was that I was stripping the rifling off of the bullet by pushing it too hard.

2400 will down load better than H110.

 

[ray15]

I looked this up. It's pretty impressive. According to the manuals, it produces just a hair move velocity in 125 grain bullets from a 10" barrel, but 158 gr and 170 gr bullets out of a 10" get about a 100-150 fps boost over H110. The manual didn't list rifle length barrels, but they might get a couple hundred fps boost as well.

It's hard to beat H110 with 125gr. But as the bullet gets heavier it accelerates more slowly in addition to reaching lower maximum velocity, giving a slower powder more time to burn. I would think you'd see a greater increase over H110 in a carbine-length barrel.

PO2Hammer has a good point, you might want to read up on 'Lil Gun too. I have zero experience with it but it's another heavy-hitter in .357 carbines. Tends to be hard on revolvers.

 

[Slamfire]

I tested H110 and 2400 in a Marlin 44 Magnum lever action and the highest velocities were with H110. I really doubt that you are going to find better in the 357 Magnum in a rifle. I think the first choice ought to be W296/H110 (same powder).

 

[tomingreeneco]

I have had good results using Accurate #9 in both my revolvers and the lever action.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Lil'gun work very well in carbines.

Yes it does! You will be surprised at the velocity bump over H110/W296. I use it for the .357 Magnum ammo shot from my Marlin.

I did send a bunch of bullets over the chrono shot from the Marlin Levergun. It seems Lil'Gun adds ~100 fps to each load.
Here are the numbers: (you will be surprised!)

Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps

Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps

I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps

I didn't test any 158gr bullets because I was interested in the performance of the heavier bullets at the time. I'm sure you will see similar results with 158gr bullets.
I hope this data helps.

 

[Jack B.]

According to the Hornady Handbook Of Cartridge Reloading 9th Edition . H110 and Win 296 produce the best velocity's with 140gr. and 158gr. XTP bullets out of a 16 inch rifle barrel. I've only ever tested 240gr bullets in 44 magnum out of a 20 inch barrel Henry and it's best accuracy is with IMR-4227 and Viht N-105. You sound like you are on the right path using H110 with your .357.

 

[Toprudder]

I have not tried Lil'Gun yet, but I can say that 300-MP is great in a 16"-20" barrel.

I first tried 300-MP in my 5" GP-100, and was disappointed with it. It reached a velocity plateau a full 1.5gn under the max listed charge. The velocity did not change any. Primers were well rounded. I stuck the bottle of powder on the back of the shelf and did not think much more about it until I started working up loads for my 16" 357 carbine. When I went back and looked at the published load data, I noticed they were for longer barrels than 5". I think the Alliant data was a 10" barrel. So, I tried it again, and sure enough, I saw a velocity increase all the way up to max charge, which was very close to 100% case fill for a 158gn bullet. No high pressure signs, and about 150fps faster than what I was getting with anything else. My accuracy load is 18.0gn with a Hornady 158 XTP FP, which gives me right at 1800fps. (Max published is 18.6).

I had a similar experience in 44mag with 300-MP. I have a 10" Ruger Blackhawk that works really well with 300-MP. I get 1445fps with Zero 240 JSP bullets, which is 100fps more than I get with H-110.

My thoughts are that 300-MP doesn't really shine until you get to barrels ~8" or longer. Another advantage of 300-MP is that it does not require magnum primers, and it shows less pressure signs (for me, at least) than H-110.

 

[frankmako]

titegroup is the way to go for 357 mag load in a lever action rifle. i use it with in my match loads for nra pistol cartridge silhouette matches. my match load is 6.5 of titegroup, 158 gr jhp bullet, mag primer, running 1296 fps in a marlin 1894, 24 inch barrel. this load works/groups the same in three marlins and one henry. nice easy shooting load that feels like a 22lr, but will take targets down out to 150 meters. if the target don't fall, the shot does not count (miss). i have a boat load of load data for titegroup with 125, 140 and 158 gr bullets. this data is from three marlins 1894 (18.5 and 24 inch barrels) and a henry 20 inch barrel. it has taken me three years of testing and shooting matches to find the right match load that works. i have also had good luck with sr 4756 powder with the same bullets, but they don't make sr 4756 any more. i have heard lil gun works too, but i don't know any shooter that use it in matches. most of the match shooter i know are using titegroup for the 357 mag. this winter i am going to play around with some cast lead loads and titegroup. pm me if you want some titegroup silhouette match load data.

 

[kcofohio]

You need slow (for pistol) powders for max .357 magnum performance regardless of the arm being used. H110 works great. You might also consider Alliant 300-MP. Many of the .357 carbine users here favor it - it appears to be a touch slower than H110.

I have nearly 2 lbs. of 300-MP that I want to try with 140 & 158 gr. bullets in rifle I may still have some 180 gr. Hornady Silhouette bullets too.
I've never tried H110 or W296. Just 2400 as a magnum powder.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Not to change the subject, but I still have most of a box of 200 gr. .357 LRNFP that I experimented with in making .38 Special Super-Police revolver loads. Can anyone point me in the direction of a manual that would have load data for these in .357 magnum (preferably for rifle)?

 

[kcofohio]

Not to change the subject, but I still have most of a box of 200 gr. .357 LRNFP that I experimented with in making .38 Special Super-Police revolver loads. Can anyone point me in the direction of a manual that would have load data for these in .357 magnum (preferably for rifle)?

I do believe Lyman's manual list loads in 357 rifle with lead bullets.

 

[buck460XVR]

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that in loading 140 & 158 gr .357 magnum for max performance out of my Henry Rifle with a 20" barrel, I would get the best results with slow(er) powders. The two I have been using with good results so far are IMR-4227 and H110.

Are there any other good powders that might squeeze a little more performance out of a long barrel where the charge will still fit in a .357 magnum case?

The real question is, will an extra 100 fps make a difference on terminal performance or ballistics? Probably not. I don't use IMR4227 in my .357 carbines, but I love it in my .44 carbines. It seems,.357 cases are just to small for it and I lose too much velocity. While Lil' Gun gives me a tad more velocity than H110/W296 in my .357 carbines, it doesn't give me the accuracy and I don't like the way it heats the gun up at the range. Also, since Lil' Gun is unusable in my revolvers, it isn't worth buying just for the carbine. I've tried other powders too in my lever .357 but always come back to H110/W296. Still reloaders love to search for that magic load combo, and it is what we do..........

 

[ArchAngelCD]

titegroup is the way to go for 357 mag load in a lever action rifle. i use it with in my match loads for nra pistol cartridge silhouette matches. my match load is 6.5 of titegroup, 158 gr jhp bullet, mag primer, running 1296 fps in a marlin 1894, 24 inch barrel. this load works/groups the same in three marlins and one henry.

According to Hodgdon that charge is above the max. Titegroup is way too fast a powder to deliver the best performance in the .357 Magnum especially in a long barrel. It is hardly slower than Bullseye. You are leaving 600fps and more on the table by not using slower powders like H110/W296, 300-MP, Lil'Gun and the like. The slower powders really shine in longer barrels.

 

[Dudedog]

There are some powders I might be tempted to push a bit, Titegroup is NOT on that list.

 

[Hondo 60]

I'm with ArchAngelCD & Dudedog.
I use a LOT of Titegroup, but not for .357 Mag performance.
For that I use 2400. Has nice LOUD throaty BOOM.
But less recoil than I would figure with that noise.

Titegroup is great for .38 Spl, 9mm, 44 Spl, 380, 32 S&W Long, .32 ACP, 41 Spl, etc.
Calibers that I like to see around 800 fps.

For 357, 44 & 41 (all magnums) for me, its 2400 to the rescue.
All of these are 1100+ fps.
If you can find data, Lil Gun works too.

I've even reloaded some 32 H&R Mag & 327 Fed Mag with 2400

 

[FM12]

Maybe try Herco or Blue Dot.

 

[Sarge7402]

Pull a copy of your reloading manual and yu should see a different set of load data for the 357 for rifles and pistols.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not to change the subject, but I still have most of a box of 200 gr. .357 LRNFP that I experimented with in making .38 Special Super-Police revolver loads. Can anyone point me in the direction of a manual that would have load data for these in .357 magnum (preferably for rifle)?

The data for a .357 Magnum is for the .357 Magnum. There isn't different data for rifles and handguns. When the .357 is listed under rifle data the only difference is the velocity reported. Pressure is pressure and that doesn't change. Proof? Look at the Hodgdon online load data site. Look at the .357 Magnum data under handguns then rifles and you will see the powder charge weights and everything else is the same but for the velocity.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

The data for a .357 Magnum is for the .357 Magnum. There isn't different data for rifles and handguns. When the .357 is listed under rifle data the only difference is the velocity reported. Pressure is pressure and that doesn't change. Proof? Look at the Hodgdon online load data site. Look at the .357 Magnum data under handguns then rifles and you will see the powder charge weights and everything else is the same but for the velocity.

I realize that if it works in a handgun, it will work in a rifle; with the same internal cartridge pressure. There are some powder/bullet combinations, though, that are particularly suited to the short barrel of a handgun or the long barrel of a rifle; and while they will work in the other, they are less than optimal.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

With a 200gr bullet I would go with 4227 especially since you are already using it. I think it's especially well suited for longer barrels but not only because it's a slower powder but because it builds pressure slower than the spike caused by H110/W296. Mine you, I'm still talking about mili-seconds but they count. I also feel 4227 is better suited for heavy bullets like the 200gr bullet you're asking about.

After looking through A LOT of books I could not find published data for a 200gr cast bullet in the .357 Magnum. I looked in manuals all the way back to 1939.

Edit to remove data I posted in error. The data was for the .357 Maximum, not Magnum. Don't use it!

This is why I don't like posting data, mistakes can and will happen. Sorry.
There is data available in www.handloads.com

 

[Eddietruett]

With a 200gr bullet I would go with 4227 especially since you are already using it. I think it's especially well suited for longer barrels but not only because it's a slower powder but because it builds pressure slower than the spike caused by H110/W296. Mine you, I'm still talking about mili-seconds but they count. I also feel 4227 is better suited for heavy bullets like the 200gr bullet you're asking about.

After looking through A LOT of books I finally found published data for a 200gr cast bullet in the .357 Magnum. I looked in manuals all the way back to 1939.

From the 1997 Hodgdon Manual
H4227 - 18.0gr
H110 - 20.0gr

Both loads are at max and 4227 charge should be reduced by 10% while the H110 charge reduced by 3% or 4% to establish the starting charge weights. Again, I think the 4227 data will be your best bet, IMO of course.

Are you sure you got that date correct? I just looked at the current Hodgdon data and with a 180gr bullet (jacketed) it gives max on H110 as 13.5gr and 4227 at 13.7gr. 18 and 20 gr seem like a lot of powder for .357 mag. I know that data for cast and jacketed will differ, but 5-6 grains? Not doubting what you read, but I've been loading a bunch of 180gr coated cast getting ready to shoots some hogs and the max load I've found for H110 is around 13.5-14gr. Ive settled on 13.5gr as it is pushing the 180 cast at just over 1250fps out of a 8 3/8" barrel and is extremely accurate. All my records are out in my loading shed, but I'm pretty sure you get close to same velocity with around 12.5gr of 2400.