357 subsonic

[Bfh_auto]

Have any of you tried heavy bullets in 357 carbine at subsonic velocities?
I've run 125 slow with pretty good luck, but they don't make steel targets react very well. I was thinking about trying 180s and was wondering if anyone has had success with them.
Most of my steel targets are at a 130 yard berm, so I don't need it beyond that.
I'm trying to quiet it down a bit to be polite to my neighbor.

 

[Obturation]

Heavier the better, use the weight to keep it subsonic. That way you dont sacrifice too much power. Light and slow sounds like .380 acp.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

I've had good success with158 gr coated lead bullets in .357 brass over about 4.1 gr HP-38 for about 1000 fps out of a Rossi with a 20" barrel and similar velocity over 4.7 gr Universal (your results may vary in your gun so you will need to do your own load development). 180 gr CWFN bullets over the minimum load of H110 gets over 1100 so right on the edge of supersonic. I've also tried Longshot under 180 gr bullets but don't have chrony data IMR 4227 would be another powder to try as you can download it easier than H110 but I don't have any data. My favorite loads out of the Rossi are 125 gr .38 Special +P level loads but they are not subsonic.

 

[joneb]

What length is the barrel? If considering a 180gr bullet, would it be cast lead, coated or jacketed? What powders do you have?
The Hornady 8th has starting loads for a 16" barrel and their 180gr XTP at a 1000 fps with 2400.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I've had good success with158 gr coated lead bullets in .357 brass over about 4.1 gr HP-38 for about 1000 fps out of a Rossi with a 20" barrel and similar velocity over 4.7 gr Universal (your results may vary in your gun so you will need to do your own load development). 180 gr CWFN bullets over the minimum load of H110 gets over 1100 so right on the edge of supersonic. I've also tried Longshot under 180 gr bullets but don't have chrony data IMR 4227 would be another powder to try as you can download it easier than H110 but I don't have any data. My favorite loads out of the Rossi are 125 gr .38 Special +P level loads but they are not subsonic.

H110 with 180in mine is supersonic.
With 125s I went down to 4 of 700x in a 38 case to get subsonic.
I figured if a 180 will stabilize subsonic, I will just use either Green or Blue dot.

 

[Bfh_auto]

What length is the barrel? If considering a 180gr bullet, would it be cast lead, coated or jacketed? What powders do you have?
The Hornady 8th has starting loads for a 16" barrel and their 180gr XTP at a 1000 fps with 2400.

180 coated WFN. I am using a 20" Rossi.
I have load data, I didn't know if anyone got heavy bullets to stabilize going slow before trying it myself.

 

[joneb]

I didn't know if anyone got heavy bullets to stabilize going slow before trying it myself.

I have not tried it, I do have a Rossi 92 with a 20" barrel and some MB 180gr coated WFN (pugnose) I only tried them at higher velocities with Lilgun and 2400. I found that the base of these bullets that I have are not flat and square so I figured a way to fix that.
If I were after a subsonic load for this combination I would try a pistol powder with a medium burn rate like Unique, Trueblue or Accurate #7.

 

[GarrettJ]

I've had good success with158 gr coated lead bullets in .357 brass over about 4.1 gr HP-38 for about 1000 fps out of a Rossi with a 20" barrel and similar velocity over 4.7 gr Universal...

For quiet loads, the faster burning pistol powders tend to give the best results. HP-38 and Universal aren’t bad suggestions here.

180 gr CWFN bullets over the minimum load of H110 gets over 1100 so right on the edge of supersonic. I've also tried Longshot under 180 gr bullets but don't have chrony data IMR 4227 would be another powder to...

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but those are not great choices for quiet loads. They are all magnum pistol powders. They burn slow and need a relatively large charge. More powder equals more gas volume, which results in a louder “pop” when the bullet uncorks from the barrel.

Longshot is especially known for being not quiet. They don’t cal it “Loudshot” for nothing.

I’ve had good results with 5.5 gr. of AA#2 with a 180 gr. XTP. It produces 800 fps from a 14” barrel and is really quiet when shooting suppressed. The sound of the bullet hitting the backstop is by far the loudest noise you hear. Unsuppressed it will still be quieter than any of the magnum powders.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I have not tried it, I do have a Rossi 92 with a 20" barrel and some MB 180gr coated WFN (pugnose) I only tried them at higher velocities with Lilgun and 2400. I found that the base of these bullets that I have are not flat and square so I figured a way to fix that.
If I were after a subsonic load for this combination I would try a pistol powder with a medium burn rate like Unique, Trueblue or Accurate #7.

The pugnose and WFN are 2 different bullets. I had excellent results with 13.5 of h110 with both of them. Lilgun leaded with the pugnose. H110 did not.

 

[joneb]

Do know the twist rate of the barrel? If its 1:30 I would think a 180gr would need more RPM's at subsonic velocities.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Do know the twist rate of the barrel? If its 1:30 I would think a 180gr would need more RPM's at subsonic velocities.

It's 1-30.
I will just settle on a 158 swc since I have a metric ton of them for my Smith.
I do like the 180 WFN in high velocity though.

 

[joneb]

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
I did a rough calculation with a bullet length of .735" and a BC G1 of .230 at 1,050 fps and it did not look good. I would guess a 1:20 might work to a 150yds.

 

[Bfh_auto]

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
I did a rough calculation with a bullet length of .735" and a BC G1 of .230 at 1,050 fps and it did not look good. I would guess a 1:20 might work to a 150yds.

Thanks. I wasn't sure about the stability and had no idea on what bc to use. I saw a lot of I'm trying too... But no follow up posts about it working or failing.

 

[joneb]

I was taking a guess on the BC based of a 180gr XTP .230 is likely optimistic.
With a 158gr SWC at 1050 fps it will be going around 900 FPS at 100yds, when you run various bullet stability calculations base on that the bullet should not be vary stable? But there is only one real way to find out.
I have not shot any 158gr 38 spl through my Rossi at 100yds over a chrono but it might be a fun thing to try.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I was taking a guess on the BC based of a 180gr XTP .230 is likely optimistic.
With a 158gr SWC at 1050 fps it will be going around 900 FPS at 100yds, when you run various bullet stability calculations base on that the bullet should not be vary stable? But there is only one real way to find out.
I have not shot any 158gr 38 spl through my Rossi at 100yds over a chrono but it might be a fun thing to try.

That might explain why I can hit the target with 158s in my 38 special revolver, but get random misses with the carbine.
Apparently slow in my carbine is just a bad idea.

 

[jmorris]

The muzzle blast makes more noise than the bullet flight.

If he’s fine with you shooting a .22 rifle, it’s not a super sonic projectile that’s the problem.

 

[Toprudder]

The muzzle blast makes more noise than the bullet flight.

If he’s fine with you shooting a .22 rifle, it’s not a super sonic projectile that’s the problem.

Agree.

Use a faster burning powder, there will be less pressure left in the barrel when the bullet exits.

When I was working up loads in 44mag, I was very much surprised just how much louder H110 was than other powders that gave similar velocity, like N-110. Powder choice can make a HUGE difference.

 

[Bfh_auto]

The muzzle blast makes more noise than the bullet flight.

If he’s fine with you shooting a .22 rifle, it’s not a super sonic projectile that’s the problem.

He doesn't complain about me shooting anything, but I know he takes a nap randomly, so I usually try to shoot when he's gone out working with his tractor. He is a good neighbor, so it's good to keep it that way.

 

[jmorris]

I understand that!

If my wife is at home and I want to shoot, I generally try and use something I can put a suppressor on but that doesn’t always fall into my plans. So I rigged up a couple 55 gallon drums that works well enough to contain the “boom”, that she doesn’t come up with something else I need to do.

 

[Toprudder]

I understand that!

If my wife is at home and I want to shoot, I generally try and use something I can put a suppressor on but that doesn’t always fall into my plans. So I rigged up a couple 55 gallon drums that works well enough to contain the “boom”, that she doesn’t come up with something else I need to do.

View attachment 835756

I've wondered about non-attached sound suppressors. I've thought about baffles inside a drum such as that, using old tires.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I understand that!

If my wife is at home and I want to shoot, I generally try and use something I can put a suppressor on but that doesn’t always fall into my plans. So I rigged up a couple 55 gallon drums that works well enough to contain the “boom”, that she doesn’t come up with something else I need to do.

View attachment 835756

That's a great idea. I have an old water heater that would be perfect.

 

[kcofohio]

I've wondered about non-attached sound suppressors. I've thought about baffles inside a drum such as that, using old tires.

I once saw where someone had several large tires that he would shoot though to baffle the report.

 

[ATLDave]

I've wondered about non-attached sound suppressors. I've thought about baffles inside a drum such as that, using old tires.

Note that just because it's quieter for other people, doesn't mean it's quieter for you! I've shot through 55-gallon barrels turned sideways in various matches. When others are shooting, their shots are muffled. When you are the shooter, it's quite boom-y!

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

H110 with 180in mine is supersonic.
With 125s I went down to 4 of 700x in a 38 case to get subsonic.
I figured if a 180 will stabilize subsonic, I will just use either Green or Blue dot.

Sorry about that. I read the wrong line in my chrony database. The 1100+ was from the 4" revolver. It was about 1575 fps from the Rossi.

 

[rfwobbly]

I've had excellent results from 158gr plated and cannelured from RMR in both 38 Spcl and 357M.