.357 takedown Levergun

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I would love to buy a .357 levergun to compliment my revolvers. I want something that could be packed small, with a good finish. I have a few questions for you:

1. I want something that can be broken down, like the "Copilot". Are there any factory takedown leverguns in .357? How long do they take to assemble quickly?

2. What is the ideal barrel length for .357 when factoring in concealability, magazine capacity, and ballistics? 16-18"?

3. Are there are manufacturers that make such a beast in a fairly corrosion resistant finish like stainless, or is my best bet carbon steel with either an aftermarket hard chrome or spray and bake over parkerizing?

4. Is this a reasonable 200yd. self defense weapon?
 
I feel that a range from 0-200yds. is realistic with .357 Magnum and iron sights. I suppose that the threat would be something threatening to me--fair enough? What would be more suitable at that range that would also fit in my .357 S&W revolvers? We're going for revolver/carbine compatability here. I appreciate your interest in this thread and hope that it is genuine.
 
200 may be pushing things. It will hit a target, but it's getting out there. I'd say 100 with a .357, and maybe 150 with the .44 mag levergun. The disadvantage of the carbines is the bullets tend to lose considerable velocity once they get out there. For a 200 yard carbine I think you need to move to a .30/30 or 7.62x39 at least, as their bullets retain energy better.

That said, for self defense the chance of an engagement at that range is pretty slim. Possible, but slim. I think you're fine with the .357 levergun.

Are there are manufacturers that make such a beast in a fairly corrosion resistant finish like stainless
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The Puma M92 comes in stainless. Fantastic levergun, I've got one in .44. I'd suggest either that or one of the Marlins, though I don't know if the Marlins come in stainless.
 
A few problems...

At 200 yards, .357 will still drop a lot, both in energy and in trajectory. You can get some pretty powerful carbine rounds in .357 ( http://www.buffalobore.com ) but the bullet itself is not a long-range design.

I don't know of any stainless guns being made in .357, though .44 is easy to get from Marlin in stainless and it can be made into a takedown (custom work). EDIT: Puma 1892 is made in stainless, though not a takedown.

On the other hand, these are nice and they're takedowns: http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfTaylors92Collection.tpl

They probably shouldn't be fed Buffalo Bore rounds, and they're not stainless, but you won't have to have custom work done to get a takedown.

If you're willing to accept 100 yards, you'll have more choices in a takedown. You don't need a maxed-out round to be really effective at 100 yards, and it will be a better cartridge to share with the revolvers. Of course, the bullet won't just stop dead at 100 yards, I just mean prioritizing effectiveness out to 100+ yards, along with your other criteria, with 200 yard effectiveness as a secondary "desirable", but not a "drop dead" criterion.

Remember, the .30-30 rifle round was revolutionary when it was new, and it's still a top choice, because it's effective at 200+ yards on deer. Pistol caliber carbines were always intended for mid-range shooting, i.e. <200 yards.
 
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With a tang or a peep sight, I don't think repeatable hits at 150 yards is unrealistic with .357 Mag. Two hundred yards should call a "real" rifle into play.

There aren't that many 200 yard shots to be had in reality in the vast majority of the lower 48.
 
.357 carbine

Rather than try to second guess your choice, I'll try to give you an answer to some of what you want.

I'm not aware of a breakdown gun such as you desire, but this does not mean that one does not exist.

As to the ballistics, the following refers to a 16" bbl and Winchester factory ammunition:

A 158gr bullet, in this evaluation of ballistics, yielded 1830 fps at the muzzle for 1175 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle. At 200 yards, velocity was 1138 fps for 458 ft/lbs energy.

At 400 yards the energy is about .38 special pistol level.

With a 180 gr. bullet at 200 yards, the energy was 372 ft/lbs, about the same energy as a .45 ACP 230 gr.bullet travelling 850 fps at the muzzle of the usual.45 automatic pistol.

The above values were obtained from Shooting Times ballistics. I take them for what they are worth, since they aren't trying to pimp a specific gun.

bvmr
 
There aren't that many 200 yard shots to be had in reality in the vast majority of the lower 48.
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...says the man from OREGON. :)

Come on out to Texas and I'll show you all of the yardage you'd ever care to see :neener:

Stinger
 
Isn't there a company...Wild West Guns..something like that...that will convert a lever rifle to break down?
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Yes, but I'm not sure the price would be worth it. A 16" .357 will pack down quite compact simply by removing the back stock. It makes more sense with full size hunting rifles you'll be carrying on a lot of trips or having to fit onto small aircraft.
 
...says the man from OREGON.

Come on out to Texas and I'll show you all of the yardage you'd ever care to see
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Well, you see, on the "wet-side" here there's a gazillion or so of these things called "trees." On the "dry side" there is only a few million trees and infinite stuff called "brush.":D

There are plenty of 200m+ shots here nonetheless. I doubt the same is true of even more urbanized areas back East, say, in Ohio.
 
1. "Factory Takedowns" Answered by Armed Bear. I haven't fooled with one, but I'd bet it takes at least 2 minutes to put one together and then you still have to load it, another 30 to 60 seconds. If you're under any stress at all, loading those itty-bitty .357 cartridges will be tough.

2. 16" to stay legal, 18-20" for best capacity and velocity.

3. I thought Marlin made a run of SS1894's in 357 for someone. The Puma '92 clone is available in SS, but I don't know if they make it in 357.

4. 200yds is entirely do-able with the 357 carbine, it's just a matter of practice. (put a scout scope on it!) I know that I wouldn't want someone who knew what they were doing shooting at me with one!

A few years ago I attended a "Law Enforcement Lever Action Rifle Instructor's Course". We had 357's, 44 maggies, 30/30's and I took my 1895 Guide Gun. One guy brought an 1895 Cowboy gun! We shot out to 300 yards. It was a hoot and I came away impressed with the self-defense capabilities of the lever-action.

Among the things I learned that week:

1. Loading and reloading require lots of practice, and even with practice, it's still SLOW.

2. 300 rounds of 405gr 45/70 weighs 27lbs.

3. The 30/30 was KING at 300 yards. No wonder it was such a big deal when it was introduced! Think of the 125gr Federal load as a 7.62X39 Magnum.

Still, if a 357 is what you want, go for it! Did I mention, put a scout scope on it?

If it was me, and I was going to spend big bucks on a custom rifle, I think I'd try to get someone to build up a 336 or 94 Winchester in 357 Max. You could still shoot 38's or 357's and the 357 Max out of a carbine-length barrel could probably approach low-end 35 Remington loads.

Good luck with your Quest!
 
I have a Marlin 1892C and 200 yards isn't really practical. Like said above, 150 yards is pushing it and 100 to 125 yards is a good range for a .357 Magnum. I have loaded some "hot" 158 gr Jacketed Flat Point rounds for my Marlin and they hit hard out to 100 yards with accuracy. The 180 gr rounds hit very hard if you are looking for a hunting round though a 30-30 is probably a better lever gun for hunting. Hornady's new LEVERevolution® ammo makes the 30-30 lever gun a 250 + yard deer rifle.
 
200yds is very doable!

with the .357. My 1894c wears a skinner receiver sight. With standard commercial 158gr jsp, I sight to hit 3" high at 100yds.....dead on at 171yds....and only a few inches low at 200yds. Also at 170yds the round from a rifle finally reaches the muzzle energy of a 4" revolver. I regulary practice at 200 yds with this my rig, and can regualry land rounds on a paper plate (9 out of 10:D). The 30/30 is definately flatter shooting, but the .357 is not that far behind:evil:. I had a simmons on my rifle (until I saw the light;)), from the bench with federal 158'gr jsp I was getting 1.5-2.5" groups(100yds), so the rifle is up to the task, if you are. Another thing to note is because of the twist of the marlin, the heavier the round the better it will shoot:D

Scope that rifle, and it's so easy to hit at that range it's not worth talking about:neener:
 
I have the Rossi/Puma with 16" barrel, wide lever in .357. Some like dislike the wide lever, I like, it was good enough for John Wayne. Anyhow, 100 yards is easy, it will deliver 4" groups all day with the stock sights. I do not see any problem with running it out to 200. Maybe a good place for the wiked fast in a carbine 125 grainers. Another point on this rifles side, it i short and light, very very handy, no need to cut it down. Bill
 
How long do they take to assemble quickly?
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I have not seen one of these in a while, and the one I saw may have been a custom job. It had interrupted threads, so you only needed to insert the front half, turn it 90 degrees, and it locked in place. Very slick, and fairly expensive to machine.
 
plexreticle said:
IMI Timberwolf, .357mag, takedown. It's a pump though not a lever gun.
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I have a Timberwolf and it's an excellent little rifle, very light, compact and handy. They're a bit difficult to find now but they occasionally show up on Gunbroker or ActionArms. The rifle only weighs about 5.5 pounds and takes down.

Some years ago there was an article in one of the gun rags handloading Hornady 140gr XTPs to over 2000 fps using the Timberwolf. The load used Winschester 680 (I think, Id have to check) and I loaded up some of that back then and still have a hundred or so rounds. Winchester discontinued the 680 years ago.

There may be a substitute powder for 680 these days. I don't know how well the lighter Hornady 140 grainer would do out to 200 yards. It still has .357 shape but it certainly has some speed.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/timber/index.htm

Ed
 
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