What makes a good "defensive" levergun?

[Space Ghost]

I've seen several threads (on several forums & on bookface) about leverguns here of late, almost all have been centered around modernizing them for "defensive" or "tactical" use.

I love lever guns myself.
Like all red blooded American boys, I grew up watching westerns. I wanted to be the "good guy" who would grow up to go get the "bad guy".
Still, I think a levergun has no role in tactical (as in "military") use.
Just my honest opinion. I've been to war. Sorry, (not sorry) I want my AR.

Now defensive use... that's a different story altogether. Now were talking the old "good guy V bad guy" type deal.
If the role of the weapon is to protect yourself and you family from criminals in a home defense role... now we're talking about an application where the old cowboy gun can still work. (even though there are better options)
Maybe all you have is a levergun.
Maybe you live in a place surrounded by commie leftie voters, and can't have an AR or AK.
Maybe you travel to those God forsaken hell-holes.

So... with that premise, let's talk about what MAKES a good "defensive" levergun.
The question is (NOT... IS a lever gun a good choice for a defensive weapon?
What makes it a good one?
What's good about them?
What can we do to better suit them to their role?

Remember we're talking "defensive use" here, so think anti-personnel, close range.

Opinions, and insights welcome... just don't be an ass about it. (like they did over on the Hide)


1. First consideration is caliber.

There are many to pick from. Lever guns have been around over 100 years, however the two that shine above all others today (IMHO) are the .357 & .44 Magnums.
These are in potent handgun calibers, and they really smoke out of a carbine barrel, gaining quite a bit of velocity.
Sure, hunting rounds like 30-30 or 45/70, are more powerful, but that also means they're designed for game. Sometimes LARGE game. Real good chance (damn near sure thing) they'll zip right through your average bad guy at defensive ranges.
That's what were talking about here for a "defensive" weapon.... Shooting at bad guys. (in other words, people) If you have to protect yourself from a criminal... it's not all that likely to happen on an empty mountain somewhere. It will be at home. (where ever that may be)
As said, the .357 & .44 Magnums are both potent handgun calibers, and they both gain velocity when fired through a carbine length barrel. The bullets, designed for handguns, (not talking hard cast hunting loads) have a much better chance of expanding violently, dumping ALL their increased energy INTO the target. Yeah, they can, and do sometimes still punch through, but not 45/70 through. This rapid expansion most often also limits penetration. Many of the ballistic gel tests I've seen in videos show penetration to around 14 or 16 inches (or thereabouts) making the chances of shooting through so many walls less. That expansion, violent rapid however, creates devastating wound channels. And yeah, you can still hunt deer sized game with them. Once you have your caliber, think ammo capacity. (you can never have too much right?) First thing... a levergun isn't even in the same ballpark as an AR. You don't get 30 rounds per mag, with very quick mag changes. Not only that, but the longer, more hunting oriented rounds like 30-30 & 45/70 vastly limit your already small magazine capacity. Capacity that is not only already limited, but that requires a lot more training to get fast with on reloading... than does an AR.
Again, the magnum handgun rounds for the win.


2. Sights.
Ok, here again, us being levergun fans (or people living is "mostly free" states) are starting off behind the curve right outta the gate. Being a very old design, typical levergun iron sights leave a lot to be desired. Myself... I'm not into semi buckhorns. Full buckhorn could basically be used as a king sized peep sight, but I still think there are better options for these old beauties. If you in the "I don't want to add an optic" club, at least consider upgrading to a set of quality peep sights from one of the aftermarket companies now making products for our rifles.

Red dots. Being the author of this particular thread, and a combat veteran who somehow (by the grace of God) survived multiple combat tours (the last one getting pretty sporty at times) I'm just gonna come out and say it...
GET A RED DOT.

OK, sure, if your rifle is for multiple use, a LPVO may be a better choice. You can see the target better at range, and still have 1x (plus an illuminated reticule in most cases) for close in defensive duty. Thing is, a LPVO is still a "scope". That means it will still have "scope shadow" if you mount the gun wrong because your live is on the line, and you might just be freaking out a bit and rushing things. Or maybe you're hiding behind cover firing from some awkward shooting position, and can't get your head just right behind the scope. The eyebox on a scope will NEVER be as forgiving as that of a red dot. The newer ones are good, and theire getting better all the time, but there is still NOTHING... that is faster at target acquisition, than a red dot.
If it's a "defensive" rifle... get a red dot for it.


3. Weapon mounted light.
Lots of pros & cons people talk (argue) about when it comes to having a weapon mounted light on a handgun... but for a rifle...
Just put a light on it.
Takes both hands to shoot most rifles, (that is how they're designed after all) and it takes the both to run a levergun action, unless you dismount the gun between shots. Hand held lights just aren't gonna work here. Oh, and yes... you do need a light. Bad guys tend to like night time, or dark places. Besides, the planet is spinning so it's dark half the time anyhow.


4. On gun ammo.
Magazine capacity is ,as we've said, limited. Even with the shorted handgun rounds, you may be starting out with 9 or 10 rounds loaded... Now, for most defensive shootings, that's plenty.
Plenty unless there's multiple attackers perhaps...
Plenty unless & until you start missing the bad guys...
Good chance you will too. Especially when you're scared, mad, or both, and maybe you just got woke up at 3am to boot.
I've got multiple war deployments behind me, and can attest to the fact that I missed... a lot more than I hit.
Have a way to store some extra rounds on the gun be it an old school leather ammo cuff, one of the new styles (and ugly as sin) buttstocks, or what I did, just put the velcro ammo cards on them like you see on shotguns. These can be ordered in pistol calibers as well. 1o in the gun, 10 more on the stock makes for 20 rounds available just grab and go. If I have time to grab an extra ammo card, that's 10 more I can slap on when these are gone.


5. Sling.
Slings are great. My standard thing is every long gun gets a sling. There will most likely be times you need to use your hands, but don't want to lay your rifle aside.
Leverguns, however, are different. Here I have some wiggle room. If I had to walk forever with one maybe.
One of the real nice things about a lever gun is their compact design, and the easy one handed carry by just grabbing the thing around the receiver.
This also one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of traditional scopes on a levergun. You loose that ability.
For mine, I chose no sling. I don't think one would get in the way, jusy didn't feel like going to the expense of adding one. (especially as it's a takedown anyhow)


To start off the discussion, here's my pick. (that I pray I never have to use)
It's a Chiappa 1892 takedown in .44 Magnum.
I also have a Rossi 92 in .357 Mag, (identical set up) but I like this one better.
1. It's a .44 Mag. Like I said there ARE better options, so if going with a handgun round, I'll take the big one. I want, but don't need, (and can't afford) a 500 S&W, so the .44 mag will suffice.
2. It's a takedown, so it can go in a bag with me, hidden away from prying eyes to a hotel room when traveling.





Discuss...
I mean it... Let's discuss.
I'm no certified expert. (though the wife may think I'm "certifiable" at times)
I don't work for Hornady or Chiappa.
Just throwing my thoughts and what I've learned out there.

Oh, and I meant to say discuss... or go away... LOL. (as in "If you can't say something nice...")
If you don't feel a levergun makes a good defensive weapon... fine... then this is not the thread for you.
(that's what I meant by "don't be an ass about it" back at the top)
I hate it when people poop on a thread.

 

[King Medallion]

I'm gonna go with... a loaded one.

 

[md7]

Well, I agree with with your thought that a lever gun could be used to good effect as a defensive tool especially for those living in restrictive locals, or for those who have one gun and it’s a lever.

Strictly for self defense, I would think 357 or 44 mag would do just fine. And in keeping with restricted states, it may pair up nicely with a wheel gun in the same cartridge.

If that’s what I had, I’d want a cuff with spare ammo, peep sites, a red dot, and a light.

All that being said, I’d much prefer a magazine fed firearm more ideally suited for defense if legal and available.

 

[Pat Riot]

If I were going to use a levergun for protection I would also keep noise in mind, the noise of the round being fired in close quarters. I would lean more toward a standard pressure.45 Colt or .38 Special. Magnum rounds going off indoors would be quite shocking, perhaps even disorienting.

That set up in your photo above would be a very nice set up in my opinion. Though I might forego the forward mounted red dot.
I would definitely go with XS Sights. A nice ghost ring and a white striped front sight…and maybe a red dot on a QD mount.

All in all though, the setup in that picture would definitely be a good one in my opinion.

This Henry “Big Boy” X model in .357/.38 would be a good choice for me. Slap a rail light on and get a butt stock ammo holder and you have the basics covered.

Photo from: https://evilroy.com/product/big-boy...-order-expected-delivery-date-end-of-january/

 

[adcoch1]

In my opinion ammo capacity is almost as important as ease of loading the magazine, so pistol caliber for me. And I really like the control of the cartridge of bigger ones through a loading gate, so make mine 44mag or 45lc.

I want a 16" barrel and a very snag free weapon light, and I want it light and bright. Don't care if it has momentary on or a strobe function, just give me a smooth compact profile with a button I can get to with my support hand.

An ammo card on the stock is very unobtrusive, so that gets my vote as well. Another functional idea is to have good checkering or stippling on the grip areas of the stock so you can hold on when it's wet or bloody, so maybe even skateboard tape in a few spots.

A small, shake awake red dot is a brilliant idea for a levergun, but please give me one that is a snag free shape.

Use frangible ammo and you're all set for defensive use around home or on the road.

 

[CraigC]

That Chiappa is a sweet setup.

I think a properly setup levergun is probably more capable than most people think. Everybody wants an AR but if you're skilled with a levergun, you can certainly consider yourself well armed with one.

For me, to be a serious defensive tool, it has to have a mounted light.

I also want ANY levergun I own to have peep sights, even if they are secondary to an optic. A red dot would be preferable as the primary sighting device. A red dot and mounted light are just light years ahead of anything else when the sun goes down.

To accomplish those t hings, I really like the idea of the M-lok rails from Midwest Industries and Ranger Point. Yeah, the Fudds make fun of them but I don't care. I've got 20 leverguns, the world won't end if one of them has a rail.

Anything from .357 on up will work but to me, this is where the .357 shines. Capacity is high, performance is stellar and noise is minimal. Rifles cartridges will gain you range but sacrifice capacity.

 

[Space Ghost]

That Chiappa is a sweet setup.

I think a properly setup levergun is probably more capable than most people think. Everybody wants an AR but if you're skilled with a levergun, you can certainly consider yourself well armed with one.

For me, to be a serious defensive tool, it has to have a mounted light.

I also want ANY levergun I own to have peep sights, even if they are secondary to an optic. A red dot would be preferable as the primary sighting device. A red dot and mounted light are just light years ahead of anything else when the sun goes down.

To accomplish those t hings, I really like the idea of the M-lok rails from Midwest Industries and Ranger Point. Yeah, the Fudds make fun of them but I don't care. I've got 20 leverguns, the world won't end if one of them has a rail.

Anything from .357 on up will work but to me, this is where the .357 shines. Capacity is high, performance is stellar and noise is minimal. Rifles cartridges will gain you range but sacrifice capacity.

You hit on a number of things.

1. Everybody wants an AR.
Of course they do... it's America's rifle... just as the levergun was 100 years ago.
In fact, I use an AR SBR as my own home defense weapon of choice. The lever gun I chose to talk about here... that's my "travel" gun.
Everything about the AR is better, faster, and mostly because I'm way better with it. I carried one all over the globe for 28 years, so they're second nature to me.

2. The weapon mounted light.
Nothing more to add.
I agree 100%.

3. I'm not normally a "fudd" so to speak. but I am when it comes to these. I have in the past made fun of them, but only because they're ugly as sin on a levergun.
In truth, they do allow for the modernization that helps to keep these old designs as current as they can be given the platform they are.
As we're talking about a "defensive" levergun, and not an heirloom quality showpiece... I have zero problems with anybody slapping one on.
Then again, I've got some grief for equipping my Lee Enfield with a red dot trying to bring it up to modern standards...

 

[GRIZ22]

Given your parameters a 16" 357 Rossi 92 is fine afaic.

 

[Peakbagger46]

No good choice here. Sure it can work but so will Brown Bess.

 

[Tinman357]

This is the kind of thread I like, making the best of what you have. I hope it stays on the point and runs a while.

While I acknowledge that an AR/AK is "better" in most ways, not all. Lets say you live in WA state and are just realizing that you do in fact need a rifle for defense.

You aren't going to be able to buy the AR/AK or any other semi auto really. All semi auto rifles are "legally" labled "assault weapons" and you're just not going to be able to get one.

Options get severly limited. I don't pretend to know all the ins/outs/details but suffice it to say that the lever gun has risen to pretty close to the top of whats legal. Apparently, people feel the same way as there getting hard to find and over the top priced if you do.

O.P. is well thought out and mirrors my own line of thought. When my AR wears out and can't be repaired due to "interpretations" of 1240 (unlikely at my age) my fall back redoubt is a pair of Marlins set up modern style. One is a JM marked 1894c round barrel and the other is a 1894CB, both in .357 and tuned to run smoothly.

When I saw the recent silliness on the horizon back in late '19, I sold off most of what I didn't need anymore and put that into upgrades and parts/ammo/reloading supplies.

Major life event in mid '20 caused me to consolidate even more. I'm down to just what I need, setup to the best I can do.

For someone scaling back, like me, or a noobie just now "un-woking" a good lever in .357 or .44 is a good choice in the current environment. Good light mount, red dot, peeps, and a sling. Practice loading on the fly, get good at varied ranges. A good lever and practice proficiency running it and most shortcomings can be minimized.

Just my humble opinion.

Good thread.

 

[LoonWulf]

Primarily, I agree with all the points made on setting up a lever gun (or any long gun). The only real addition I would probably add is a second handheld flashlight.

.44 Mag, as defensive use isnt going to be the primary existence for any lever gun I own. 44 special defensive loads would probably be what I had in it, as long as they cycled correctly.
Reloads on gun are a good idea, ive never used those cards but they look they would work well....Id probably go with a butt cuff or pouch out of familiarity.
I would run an onboard light, but probably have second light as I dont really want to be pointing my gun at everything I want to look at.
Optics of some sort for sure, ive used ghost rings and peeps enough that im comfortable with them, but in low light illuminated dot will always be preferable IMO.

Thats basically how I have both my Sub2000 in .40, and my dads 556 upper, setup. When I get my Mini-30 It will also get places for a light, and both a dot and scope set up.

 

[Risky buisness]

Interesting questions. While I don't live in town and am not 100 % concerned with over penetration, having a lever gun as a HD rifle wouldnt be to hard for me, I have several, shorty 94s in .45 Colt, shorty 336 in 30-30.
Were my circumstances different, I would look very seriously at a BLR in 223, mount a rail, add an Aimpoint/ Eotec and a flashlight, several spare magazines, a butt stock mag holder and call it done. No have to practice side loading, just pop a mag in....no real difficulties with over penetration, using appropriate ammunition, got a light, and a quality red dot. Couldn't want much more, ahh maybe a sling.

 

[doubleh]

I guess I am out of touch. I see no reason that an ordinary Rossi 92 with a 16 or 20" barrel wouldn't fill the need, no big loop levers, no plastic stocks. Something to think about is that in home invasions the range is very short and sights are not even needed. Here is something else to consider. Penetration, especially for city dwellers. Even though I live rural a shotgun is my choice. Noise? Anything big enought to get the job done is going to be ear shattering inside a house, it's just a case of how shattering it is. Even a 22 rimfire is going to be very loud. Here in my state it better be an up in your face, fear for your life situation or you will be sitting in jail charged with murder.

 

[trackskippy]

I like leverguns as much as the next guy. I just dont see trying to make them into something they arent.

I actually tried to do it to one of my Winchester Trappers back in the 90's. I threw a scout rail on it, tried a red dot, and a scout scope, and realized pretty quick, adding a bunch of crap to them, just screwed things up, and took away all the handiness and usefulness from them.

About as far as I would go would be to add a decent sling, put an XS ghost ring on it, and a dab of something bright on the front sight, and that would be it.

 

[valnar]

I think the best home defense gun is one that is good enough to do the job, and not one so expensive and tricked out that you're upset when it is confiscated.

As someone who was stupid enough to have a ND inside my house, I'd say an (expensive) silencer is more important than the (cheap) gun. Just remove it before the police get there.

 

[Trey Veston]

I use my Henry in .45 Colt as a camp defense carbine. It shines in that role.



But it's a bit bulky and can't be operated with one hand for opening doors or holding a phone for calling 911, so I have an Extar EP-9 for that role...

 

[Chief TC]

I've seen several threads (on several forums & on bookface) about leverguns here of late, almost all have been centered around modernizing them for "defensive" or "tactical" use.

I love lever guns myself.
Like all red blooded American boys, I grew up watching westerns. I wanted to be the "good guy" who would grow up to go get the "bad guy".
Still, I think a levergun has no role in tactical (as in "military") use.
Just my honest opinion. I've been to war. Sorry, (not sorry) I want my AR.

Now defensive use... that's a different story altogether. Now were talking the old "good guy V bad guy" type deal.
If the role of the weapon is to protect yourself and you family from criminals in a home defense role... now we're talking about an application where the old cowboy gun can still work. (even though there are better options)
Maybe all you have is a levergun.
Maybe you live in a place surrounded by commie leftie voters, and can't have an AR or AK.
Maybe you travel to those God forsaken hell-holes.

So... with that premise, let's talk about what MAKES a good "defensive" levergun.
The question is (NOT... IS a lever gun a good choice for a defensive weapon?
What makes it a good one?
What's good about them?
What can we do to better suit them to their role?

Remember we're talking "defensive use" here, so think anti-personnel, close range.

Opinions, and insights welcome... just don't be an ass about it. (like they did over on the Hide)


1. First consideration is caliber.

There are many to pick from. Lever guns have been around over 100 years, however the two that shine above all others today (IMHO) are the .357 & .44 Magnums.
These are in potent handgun calibers, and they really smoke out of a carbine barrel, gaining quite a bit of velocity.
Sure, hunting rounds like 30-30 or 45/70, are more powerful, but that also means they're designed for game. Sometimes LARGE game. Real good chance (damn near sure thing) they'll zip right through your average bad guy at defensive ranges.
That's what were talking about here for a "defensive" weapon.... Shooting at bad guys. (in other words, people) If you have to protect yourself from a criminal... it's not all that likely to happen on an empty mountain somewhere. It will be at home. (where ever that may be)
As said, the .357 & .44 Magnums are both potent handgun calibers, and they both gain velocity when fired through a carbine length barrel. The bullets, designed for handguns, (not talking hard cast hunting loads) have a much better chance of expanding violently, dumping ALL their increased energy INTO the target. Yeah, they can, and do sometimes still punch through, but not 45/70 through. This rapid expansion most often also limits penetration. Many of the ballistic gel tests I've seen in videos show penetration to around 14 or 16 inches (or thereabouts) making the chances of shooting through so many walls less. That expansion, violent rapid however, creates devastating wound channels. And yeah, you can still hunt deer sized game with them. Once you have your caliber, think ammo capacity. (you can never have too much right?) First thing... a levergun isn't even in the same ballpark as an AR. You don't get 30 rounds per mag, with very quick mag changes. Not only that, but the longer, more hunting oriented rounds like 30-30 & 45/70 vastly limit your already small magazine capacity. Capacity that is not only already limited, but that requires a lot more training to get fast with on reloading... than does an AR.
Again, the magnum handgun rounds for the win.


2. Sights.
Ok, here again, us being levergun fans (or people living is "mostly free" states) are starting off behind the curve right outta the gate. Being a very old design, typical levergun iron sights leave a lot to be desired. Myself... I'm not into semi buckhorns. Full buckhorn could basically be used as a king sized peep sight, but I still think there are better options for these old beauties. If you in the "I don't want to add an optic" club, at least consider upgrading to a set of quality peep sights from one of the aftermarket companies now making products for our rifles.

Red dots. Being the author of this particular thread, and a combat veteran who somehow (by the grace of God) survived multiple combat tours (the last one getting pretty sporty at times) I'm just gonna come out and say it...
GET A RED DOT.

OK, sure, if your rifle is for multiple use, a LPVO may be a better choice. You can see the target better at range, and still have 1x (plus an illuminated reticule in most cases) for close in defensive duty. Thing is, a LPVO is still a "scope". That means it will still have "scope shadow" if you mount the gun wrong because your live is on the line, and you might just be freaking out a bit and rushing things. Or maybe you're hiding behind cover firing from some awkward shooting position, and can't get your head just right behind the scope. The eyebox on a scope will NEVER be as forgiving as that of a red dot. The newer ones are good, and theire getting better all the time, but there is still NOTHING... that is faster at target acquisition, than a red dot.
If it's a "defensive" rifle... get a red dot for it.


3. Weapon mounted light.
Lots of pros & cons people talk (argue) about when it comes to having a weapon mounted light on a handgun... but for a rifle...
Just put a light on it.
Takes both hands to shoot most rifles, (that is how they're designed after all) and it takes the both to run a levergun action, unless you dismount the gun between shots. Hand held lights just aren't gonna work here. Oh, and yes... you do need a light. Bad guys tend to like night time, or dark places. Besides, the planet is spinning so it's dark half the time anyhow.


4. On gun ammo.
Magazine capacity is ,as we've said, limited. Even with the shorted handgun rounds, you may be starting out with 9 or 10 rounds loaded... Now, for most defensive shootings, that's plenty.
Plenty unless there's multiple attackers perhaps...
Plenty unless & until you start missing the bad guys...
Good chance you will too. Especially when you're scared, mad, or both, and maybe you just got woke up at 3am to boot.
I've got multiple war deployments behind me, and can attest to the fact that I missed... a lot more than I hit.
Have a way to store some extra rounds on the gun be it an old school leather ammo cuff, one of the new styles (and ugly as sin) buttstocks, or what I did, just put the velcro ammo cards on them like you see on shotguns. These can be ordered in pistol calibers as well. 1o in the gun, 10 more on the stock makes for 20 rounds available just grab and go. If I have time to grab an extra ammo card, that's 10 more I can slap on when these are gone.


5. Sling.
Slings are great. My standard thing is every long gun gets a sling. There will most likely be times you need to use your hands, but don't want to lay your rifle aside.
Leverguns, however, are different. Here I have some wiggle room. If I had to walk forever with one maybe.
One of the real nice things about a lever gun is their compact design, and the easy one handed carry by just grabbing the thing around the receiver.
This also one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of traditional scopes on a levergun. You loose that ability.
For mine, I chose no sling. I don't think one would get in the way, jusy didn't feel like going to the expense of adding one. (especially as it's a takedown anyhow)


To start off the discussion, here's my pick. (that I pray I never have to use)
It's a Chiappa 1892 takedown in .44 Magnum.
I also have a Rossi 92 in .357 Mag, (identical set up) but I like this one better.
1. It's a .44 Mag. Like I said there ARE better options, so if going with a handgun round, I'll take the big one. I want, but don't need, (and can't afford) a 500 S&W, so the .44 mag will suffice.
2. It's a takedown, so it can go in a bag with me, hidden away from prying eyes to a hotel room when traveling.


View attachment 1168044


Discuss...
I mean it... Let's discuss.
I'm no certified expert. (though the wife may think I'm "certifiable" at times)
I don't work for Hornady or Chiappa.
Just throwing my thoughts and what I've learned out there.

Oh, and I meant to say discuss... or go away... LOL. (as in "If you can't say something nice...")
If you don't feel a levergun makes a good defensive weapon... fine... then this is not the thread for you.
(that's what I meant by "don't be an ass about it" back at the top)
I hate it when people poop on a thread.

Agreed, if someone has nothing of value to add then go away. No one needs the snide comments we have been seeing lately. I mentioned this same thing on another thread and my post was deleted.
Anyways - my opinion on lever gun for defense I like light and short in .357. No optics. No sling. Extra rounds and a side loading gate. Henry comes to mind since they make a 357 carbine with a loading gate. I think quick response is more key than anything, I support keeping it simple and not complicating anything with more than a short and light rifle that can still ring bells with a sturdy whack from the wood and metal buttstock.

Henry makes the Mare's leg too in 357 and has 12" barrel and short stock, just like from the old TV show. Never seen one used in real life but I read in article stating how it was an abomination that took the worst features of a pistol and lever rifle and mashed them together.

 

[Chief TC]

No good choice here. Sure it can work but so will Brown Bess.

Maybe read the OP's original post so you can respond accordingly or better yet, not at all. If comments like this are going to be allowed, we really need a dislike button.

 

[dobedo]

I've seen several threads (on several forums & on bookface) about leverguns here of late, almost all have been centered around modernizing them for "defensive" or "tactical" use.

I love lever guns myself.
Like all red blooded American boys, I grew up watching westerns. I wanted to be the "good guy" who would grow up to go get the "bad guy".
Still, I think a levergun has no role in tactical (as in "military") use.
Just my honest opinion. I've been to war. Sorry, (not sorry) I want my AR.

Now defensive use... that's a different story altogether. Now were talking the old "good guy V bad guy" type deal.
If the role of the weapon is to protect yourself and you family from criminals in a home defense role... now we're talking about an application where the old cowboy gun can still work. (even though there are better options)
Maybe all you have is a levergun.
Maybe you live in a place surrounded by commie leftie voters, and can't have an AR or AK.
Maybe you travel to those God forsaken hell-holes.

So... with that premise, let's talk about what MAKES a good "defensive" levergun.
The question is (NOT... IS a lever gun a good choice for a defensive weapon?
What makes it a good one?
What's good about them?
What can we do to better suit them to their role?

Remember we're talking "defensive use" here, so think anti-personnel, close range.

Opinions, and insights welcome... just don't be an ass about it. (like they did over on the Hide)


1. First consideration is caliber.

There are many to pick from. Lever guns have been around over 100 years, however the two that shine above all others today (IMHO) are the .357 & .44 Magnums.
These are in potent handgun calibers, and they really smoke out of a carbine barrel, gaining quite a bit of velocity.
Sure, hunting rounds like 30-30 or 45/70, are more powerful, but that also means they're designed for game. Sometimes LARGE game. Real good chance (damn near sure thing) they'll zip right through your average bad guy at defensive ranges.
That's what were talking about here for a "defensive" weapon.... Shooting at bad guys. (in other words, people) If you have to protect yourself from a criminal... it's not all that likely to happen on an empty mountain somewhere. It will be at home. (where ever that may be)
As said, the .357 & .44 Magnums are both potent handgun calibers, and they both gain velocity when fired through a carbine length barrel. The bullets, designed for handguns, (not talking hard cast hunting loads) have a much better chance of expanding violently, dumping ALL their increased energy INTO the target. Yeah, they can, and do sometimes still punch through, but not 45/70 through. This rapid expansion most often also limits penetration. Many of the ballistic gel tests I've seen in videos show penetration to around 14 or 16 inches (or thereabouts) making the chances of shooting through so many walls less. That expansion, violent rapid however, creates devastating wound channels. And yeah, you can still hunt deer sized game with them. Once you have your caliber, think ammo capacity. (you can never have too much right?) First thing... a levergun isn't even in the same ballpark as an AR. You don't get 30 rounds per mag, with very quick mag changes. Not only that, but the longer, more hunting oriented rounds like 30-30 & 45/70 vastly limit your already small magazine capacity. Capacity that is not only already limited, but that requires a lot more training to get fast with on reloading... than does an AR.
Again, the magnum handgun rounds for the win.


2. Sights.
Ok, here again, us being levergun fans (or people living is "mostly free" states) are starting off behind the curve right outta the gate. Being a very old design, typical levergun iron sights leave a lot to be desired. Myself... I'm not into semi buckhorns. Full buckhorn could basically be used as a king sized peep sight, but I still think there are better options for these old beauties. If you in the "I don't want to add an optic" club, at least consider upgrading to a set of quality peep sights from one of the aftermarket companies now making products for our rifles.

Red dots. Being the author of this particular thread, and a combat veteran who somehow (by the grace of God) survived multiple combat tours (the last one getting pretty sporty at times) I'm just gonna come out and say it...
GET A RED DOT.

OK, sure, if your rifle is for multiple use, a LPVO may be a better choice. You can see the target better at range, and still have 1x (plus an illuminated reticule in most cases) for close in defensive duty. Thing is, a LPVO is still a "scope". That means it will still have "scope shadow" if you mount the gun wrong because your live is on the line, and you might just be freaking out a bit and rushing things. Or maybe you're hiding behind cover firing from some awkward shooting position, and can't get your head just right behind the scope. The eyebox on a scope will NEVER be as forgiving as that of a red dot. The newer ones are good, and theire getting better all the time, but there is still NOTHING... that is faster at target acquisition, than a red dot.
If it's a "defensive" rifle... get a red dot for it.


3. Weapon mounted light.
Lots of pros & cons people talk (argue) about when it comes to having a weapon mounted light on a handgun... but for a rifle...
Just put a light on it.
Takes both hands to shoot most rifles, (that is how they're designed after all) and it takes the both to run a levergun action, unless you dismount the gun between shots. Hand held lights just aren't gonna work here. Oh, and yes... you do need a light. Bad guys tend to like night time, or dark places. Besides, the planet is spinning so it's dark half the time anyhow.


4. On gun ammo.
Magazine capacity is ,as we've said, limited. Even with the shorted handgun rounds, you may be starting out with 9 or 10 rounds loaded... Now, for most defensive shootings, that's plenty.
Plenty unless there's multiple attackers perhaps...
Plenty unless & until you start missing the bad guys...
Good chance you will too. Especially when you're scared, mad, or both, and maybe you just got woke up at 3am to boot.
I've got multiple war deployments behind me, and can attest to the fact that I missed... a lot more than I hit.
Have a way to store some extra rounds on the gun be it an old school leather ammo cuff, one of the new styles (and ugly as sin) buttstocks, or what I did, just put the velcro ammo cards on them like you see on shotguns. These can be ordered in pistol calibers as well. 1o in the gun, 10 more on the stock makes for 20 rounds available just grab and go. If I have time to grab an extra ammo card, that's 10 more I can slap on when these are gone.


5. Sling.
Slings are great. My standard thing is every long gun gets a sling. There will most likely be times you need to use your hands, but don't want to lay your rifle aside.
Leverguns, however, are different. Here I have some wiggle room. If I had to walk forever with one maybe.
One of the real nice things about a lever gun is their compact design, and the easy one handed carry by just grabbing the thing around the receiver.
This also one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of traditional scopes on a levergun. You loose that ability.
For mine, I chose no sling. I don't think one would get in the way, jusy didn't feel like going to the expense of adding one. (especially as it's a takedown anyhow)


To start off the discussion, here's my pick. (that I pray I never have to use)
It's a Chiappa 1892 takedown in .44 Magnum.
I also have a Rossi 92 in .357 Mag, (identical set up) but I like this one better.
1. It's a .44 Mag. Like I said there ARE better options, so if going with a handgun round, I'll take the big one. I want, but don't need, (and can't afford) a 500 S&W, so the .44 mag will suffice.
2. It's a takedown, so it can go in a bag with me, hidden away from prying eyes to a hotel room when traveling.


View attachment 1168044


Discuss...
I mean it... Let's discuss.
I'm no certified expert. (though the wife may think I'm "certifiable" at times)
I don't work for Hornady or Chiappa.
Just throwing my thoughts and what I've learned out there.

Oh, and I meant to say discuss... or go away... LOL. (as in "If you can't say something nice...")
If you don't feel a levergun makes a good defensive weapon... fine... then this is not the thread for you.
(that's what I meant by "don't be an ass about it" back at the top)
I hate it when people poop on a thread.

I have had many flavors of a lever gun for 50 years. I currently own 3 Henrys 22, 30/30, 45/70 and 1 Big Horn Armory .500 S&W Magnum. Regardless of what flavor of lever gun you have the determining factor is how fast can you shoot while staying on target. I can crank out a minimum of 5 rounds in 5 seconds or less and stay on target with the any of my lever guns. Tactical is just a word that is slung around more times that you can count. It has no true meaning when it comes to handling any gun and keeping on target that is what you call technique.

 

[AJC1]

One of the major benefits of using a levergun over an AR is appearance in court. I'm not going outside to chase people down, so all that extra Tacticool need not apply. 16" 357 with a quality hollowpoint so your not shooting your neighbors and done.... my current situation leaves a 2 man team, and 2 defenders offset an AR every time. A Tactical team wins if their coming for me so that is what it is.

 

[jstert]

my henry 22lr lever-action carbine has become a road trip, home away from home, defensive piece. a rimfire lever-action rifle, carried secured & unloaded in the car trunk, is lawful when transiting 2a unfriendly locales. i got it for $260 4 years ago as a slightly dinged, floor display model sitting neglected in a very tactical lgs. for defensive purposes 22wmr would be better, but i couldn’t walk away that 22lr deal. 22lr ammo being 1/3 the price of 22wmr ammo i practice alot with it. a swarm of fast & accurate 22lr stingers from my henry is comforting for my needs.

 

[StrawHat]

If I were to choose a lever rifle for this role, I would prefer it to be chambered the same as my revolver, so 45 ACP. Unfortunately, not many of those have been made, even fewer from a factory. A peep rear sight and Beech fore sight would round it out for me.

Kevin

 

[chicharrones]

No good choice here. Sure it can work but so will Brown Bess.

Funny. Man.

 

[chicharrones]

Discuss...
I mean it... Let's discuss.
I'm no certified expert. (though the wife may think I'm "certifiable" at times)
I don't work for Hornady or Chiappa.
Just throwing my thoughts and what I've learned out there.

Oh, and I meant to say discuss... or go away... LOL. (as in "If you can't say something nice...")
If you don't feel a levergun makes a good defensive weapon... fine... then this is not the thread for you.
(that's what I meant by "don't be an ass about it" back at the top)
I hate it when people poop on a thread.

My only issue with a lever gun is if I have to operate it quickly from my weak side. I am more likely to short stroke the lever when firing it from my weak side, when that is a non-issue with a semi-auto carbine.

 

[plainsdrifter]

My answer to the question is a short barrel.