357Sig vs 10mm

[GunLvrNLearner]

I am trying to learn all i can about guns so please bare with my elementary questions.

Which i more powerful round? My assumption is the 10mm is MUCH MORE POWERFUL

I know they are both uncommon rounds,one thing i have noticed walmart sells 357sig ammo but not 10mm

In these rounds are both FMJ and JHP sold for both SD and plinking options or only hollow points?

 

[KBintheSLC]

A word of advise... if you are concerned about ammo prices, I would not buy either caliber. However, I have no issues paying a little extra for 10mm ammo. The caliber rocks hands down.

Every gunshop in town here has at least some FMJ range ammo for a decent price. But the defensive stuff was ordered from DoubleTap. The ammo costs quite a bit more than say, 9mm... but the difference is huge.

Here is a comparison.

357 SIG = 357 Magnum
10mm Auto = 41 Magnum

Give or take a few FPE's... hope that helps.

 

[GunLvrNLearner]

Yes thanks,it helps a lot, do you think 10mm ammo will still be made in 20/30 years? I'd hate to have a gun that ammo is extinct

 

[Disaster]

357 SIG = 357 Magnum
10mm Auto = 41 Magnum

Give or take a few FPE's... hope that helps.

minus about 25% and this comparison would be true. The .357 Sig can push light bullets pretty fast, but has considerably less power than the .357 magnum.

 

[weisse52]

If you are looking at thses two you may want to learn to reload.

 

[357wheelgunner]

.357sig is a 9mm but faster. It can fit into small framed handguns (9mm/.40).

10mm is a .40 but faster. It fits into large frame handguns (.45).

 

[KBintheSLC]

Yes thanks,it helps a lot, do you think 10mm ammo will still be made in 20/30 years? I'd hate to have a gun that ammo is extinct

That is the exact same question I asked about a month ago before I bought the Glock 20. However, once you actually hit the market in search of 10mm ammo, you will find that the caliber is most definitely alive and kicking... even growing in popularity at a considerable rate.

I think the only thing that will make this caliber go extinct is when they figure out how to put a 10 megawatt laser into a handgun... and of course manage to dodge the bans from the socialists.

357 SIG = 357 Magnum
10mm Auto = 41 Magnum
Give or take a few FPE's... hope that helps.

minus about 25% and this comparison would be true. The .357 Sig can push light bullets pretty fast, but has considerably less power than the .357 magnum.

Duuuude... 25% is a morbid exaggeration.

They are actually pretty close... look at the 125gr loads in 357's
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/

 

[BlindJustice]

THe .357 Magnum has more power than a .357 Sig because of it's
ability to use slower burning magnum powder to push the
158 gr. and 180 gr. bullets. The .357 Sig. is limited
in bullet weight due to the bottleneck and larger bullets
taking up case capacity.

The .400 CorBon which is a necked down .45 ACP can closely
match a 10MM Auto up to 155/154 gr. bullet weight but
from 180 gr. and up the 10MM AUto leaves the .400 CB in the dust.

Randall

 

[Disaster]

Duuuude... 25% is a morbid exaggeration.

They are actually pretty close... look at the 125gr loads in 357's
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/

OK. Now try this link.

710 ft-lbs for .357 magnum from DoubleTap.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=48

or this one.
802 ft-lbs for .357 magnum from BuffaloBore.
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

and the .357 Sig from the same guys.

614 ft-lbs. for .357 Sig from DoubleTap.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=124

575 ft-lbs for .357 Sig from BuffaloBore.
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357sig

That is 750 ft-lb average vs. 590 ft-lb average for the these two which works out to 27% more power for the .357 magnum. If you compare the most powerful of the two, the difference is an even greater 30%.

But, as was already mentioned, that is comparing against lightweight bullets. Where the .357 magnum really shines is it's ability to push heavy bullets much faster yielding far more penetration.

In fact, the 10mm is closer to a .357 magnum in total energy....700-800 ft-lbs. The 41 magnum can generate over 1000 ft-lbs of energy.

 

[hrgrisso]

Except

Disaster your right the .357 Mag really shines with heavy loads. For hunting. for human predators which is what most .357Sig customers are interested in though the .357 proven track record is with the 115 grain bullet (elmer keith iirc or bill jordan iirc) that developed the 1 shot lightening hit. In this loading the .357Sig easily matches the .357Mag.

To the original post: Honestly it depends on what you want to do with it.

For hunting the heavier 10mm is awosome Ted Nugent (cat scratch fever is on the radio) takes good size boar with it regularly. And it is more powerful than most other rounds out there.

For distance the .357Sig maintains it's power further so that out past a hundred yards it's more powerful.

For Self defense honestly your well served with both. A few thoughts though the gun options are limited with 10mm. Dan Wesson has an amazing 1911 commander for it. Of course there is the EAA Witness and Glocks. Older model smiths and a few others.

For .357Sig you've got Sigs (of course), Glock, S&W including the new M&P, Springfield XD's and more.

A few thoughts for ammo:

The .357Sig still retains a foothold (no argument it's smaller than .40 and 9 but about comparable to .45) in LE so you'll continue to see quantities of premium/common SD ammo. While 10mm has been relegated to a fervent and very loyal civilian role. Which may prove better in the long run for development because handloaders are CRAZY!

Either way as long as you spend your money on a decent gun (don't cheap out!) and buy good ammo and get training you'll be fine.

I suggest getting training because when I first jumped up from 40/9mm/.45 to the next power level I had to retrain myself to shoot them because they have more bark and a bit more jump. NOT unmanagable but you do need to be ready for it. I love both my dan wesson and Sigs (from 40 to .357sig in a fast barrel change).

Good luck, stay safe and good shooting!

 

[macadore]

The 357 Sig with a 125 grain bullet out of a 4 inch duplicates the energy and velocity of a 357 Magnum out of a 4 inch barrel. It is an excellent self defense round. However, I doubt that in most situations it performs much better than the 9x19. Having said that, I carry a Glock 32 in 357 Sig. If I have to defend my family, I want every advantage I can get.

 

[Disaster]

for human predators which is what most .357Sig customers are interested in though the .357 proven track record is with the 115 grain bullet (elmer keith iirc or bill jordan iirc) that developed the 1 shot lightening hit. In this loading the .357Sig easily matches the .357Mag.

In their era high velocity with light bullets was the mindset. This was the only way to guarantee expansion with the old technologies. Heck, I recall Elmer used to like to use wadcutters. Today, there are heavy bullets that expand at 700 fps with better reliability than did the old rounds at 1400 fps. Now that we have reliable expansion at lower velocities we can use heavier bullets and get much better penetration.

As far as the .357 Sig matching the .357 magnum with lightweight loads it isn't true with the two hottest names in defensive ammo, DoubleTap and BuffaloBore....might be true with standard factory ammo.

BuffaloBore gets 1603 fps from a .357 magnum 125 gr. bullet out of a 4" revolver. Their .357 Sig 125 gr. bullet only reached 1433 fps out of a 4" auto.

 

[memphisjim]

the 10mm is superior to the 357 sig
also with a 10mm you can get a drop in 9x25dillon barrel and get some real screamers

 

[IdahoLT1]

the .357SIG is similar to the 357mag in the lighter bullets. Its just like the .308 and .30-06. They will keep up with it until heavier bullets are used.

 

[Loomis]

Listen up boys and girls...slower burning powder is only a good thing if yhou have very long barrels. Faster burning powder is better for short barrels.

blindjustice needs to learn a bit more about balistics and ammo.

357mag is theoretically superior in very long barrels. Actually, not theoretically...its proven. It is superior. Slow burning powder sucks in pistols. otherwise, a 12 ga shotgun shell would be king in the pisol world...it aint.

 

[Disaster]

Listen up boys and girls...slower burning powder is only a good thing if yhou have very long barrels. Faster burning powder is better for short barrels.

blindjustice needs to learn a bit more about balistics and ammo.

In BlindJustice's defense, I don't think he was talking about slow burning rifle/shotgun powders, but slower burning pistol powders. You can use a slower burning powder more effectively when you use a heavier bullet. Of course a longer barrel helps too.

The interesting thing is that, in the old days, you needed velocity to get expansion. To get high velocities you had to use light bullets. There was the "rub." The shorter the barrel, the more velocity, and therefore power, you lose when going with lightweight bullets. Going with lightweight bullets also costs you momentum which reduces penetration.

Now that we can get reliable expansion at low velocities we can load heavier bullets in short barreled guns. While these lose performance with shorter barrels they don't lose as much performance as a lightweight bullet does.

 

[357wheelgunner]

The 357 Sig with a 125 grain bullet out of a 4 inch duplicates the energy and velocity of a 357 Magnum out of a 4 inch barrel. It is an excellent self defense round. However, I doubt that in most situations it performs much better than the 9x19.

The .357 magnum wasn't so successful due to velocity and energy, it was that combined with being able to fire any profile bullet that made it so good.

Autos have to feed the round from a magazine, which severely limits what kind of bullet you can use.

9mm +P+ = .357sig, and you can practice for half the price.

 

[memphisjim]

fine plain and simple 357mag is a large step below 10mm

 

[Disaster]

fine plain and simple 357mag is a large step below 10mm

Not from a muzzle energy standpoint. .357 magnum top loads equal or better the 10mm's muzzle energy at 800 ft-lbs. or so.

 

[KBintheSLC]

As far as the .357 Sig matching the .357 magnum with lightweight loads it isn't true with the two hottest names in defensive ammo, DoubleTap and BuffaloBore.

You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that both of those companies "overload" their ammo do ya? SAAMI factory loads are virtually identical in 125gr loadings. Yes, you could load a 357 mag to higher pressures... it has a longer case. But now you are just talking apples and oranges.

I understand your love for the 357 magnum, but you don't really need to "nickel and dime" us to death to defend it. The two are close enough to use as comparison... so please let it go.

THe .357 Magnum has more power than a .357 Sig because of it's
ability to use slower burning magnum powder to push the
158 gr. and 180 gr. bullets.

I always thought slow burning powders were used for rifle ammo not for pistol loadings...

 

[sqlbullet]

GunLvrNLearner,

I really enjoy your questions, but I have some very respectful advice for you.

Become familiar with www.handloads.com and various ammo mfg websites. I like Double Tap. Comparing energies in various loads from different sites will be more factual than the answers you get here. (Before everyone else get's offended, this includes my answers. We all have bias.)

The definition of 'power' is variable when comparing cartridges. Power as in raw energy (at the muzzle, 25 yards, 100 yards), power to penetrate (phone books, ballistics gelatin, flesh, bones, steel, concrete blocks), etc.

And the answers can be very different. Bullet diameter, construction, sectional density all play a role in how a given bullet behaves terminally, and effect this concept of power. Ballistics coeffecients will effect how much muzzle energy is preserved at distance. (This is usually not a significant factor in common handgun calibers...they all fly like bricks.)

For instance, the 5.7X28 has roughly half the energy of either the 357 Mag or the 10mm. However, the 5.7 will consistenly penetrate body armor with steel penetrator, aluminum core (SS190) ammo. Neither of the other rounds will.

To your original question, the 10mm Auto is roughly 15% to 25% more powerful than the 357 sig. The 357 Sig is roughly 4¢ per shot cheaper than the 10mm from Georgia Arms. It will also be cheaper to reload due to both lower material requirements to create the lighter bullets and smaller case capacity. New brass is .8¢ more than 10mm, due to the extra operation in creating the case shoulder (starline brass).

 

[Disaster]

You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that both of those companies "overload" their ammo do ya? SAAMI factory loads are virtually identical in 125gr loadings. Yes, you could load a 357 mag to higher pressures... it has a longer case. But now you are just talking apples and oranges.

I understand your love for the 357 magnum, but you don't really need to "nickel and dime" us to death to defend it. The two are close enough to use as comparison... so please let it go.

Are you saying that DoubleTap and BuffaloBore are overloading the .357 magnum but not the .357 Sig or 10mm??? That seems doubtful. I suspect the answer is that they can get a bit more powder, and therefore power and velocity out of the .357 magnum at the same pressures (likewise for the 41 magnum.)

I'm not trying to "nickel and dime" anyone but when someone claims that a cartridge is just as powerful, yet the numbers from two companies are 20-30% less powerful I think it bears a healthy debate. Rather than just suggesting I'm biased how about linking to ballistic data that shows 125 gr. Sig loads that equals the .357. magnum. Even if you use the Guns & Ammo link that was suggested earlier the fastest .357 magnum from a 4" barrel was 1450 fps vs. 1375 fps for the .357 Sig. You can call that "virtually" identical but it works out to about 11% muzzle energy increase with the .357 magnum.

IMHO, the main reason the .357 Sig is seen as equal to the .357 magnum was because it was marketed as being equal to the .357 with light bullets...despite the slight deficit. That and the ".357" name helped.

I'm not trying to disparage the .357 Sig. I like that we have lots of different caliber choices. For me, however, the .40 S&W makes more sense. It has all the power, yet is cheaper and more abundant. In comparison .357 Sig doesn't give you any more power or ammo capacity unlike the 9mm which provides a few more rounds in the same size package.

 

[VetteVert]

How does .357 sig not give more power than .40 S&W?

VV

 

[Disaster]

How does .357 sig not give more power than .40 S&W?

It doesn't make more power because it is basically a necked down .40 S&W, with a lighter bullet. The .40 S&W with lightweight bullets performs similarly. Take a quick look at the DoubleTap 135 gr. bullet offering for the 40 S&W.

 

[Crunker1337]

Just throwin' it out there: it's not just the odd 1911, GLOCKS and old S&Ws that are your option for 10mm. S&W has reintroduced the 610, a six-shooter that will also fire .40S&W rounds.