.36 Navy load variations

[mec]

Just starting on this. Direct, same day, same conditions observation of wonder wad /no wonder wad loads. I used Gun Grease, a commercial over-ball lubricant for the bare loads and no lubricant for the wonder wads. Before starting on this, I clocked some .380 balls over 25 Grains of Swiss.
Velocity 1101 fps Spread 6 rounds- 71 fps.The point of impact was low and several inches to the right of my usual 22/grain/vol equivalent pyrodex load. I was getting hammer blow-back and back-rotation of the cylinder sufficient to screw up repeat function:

22 grains Swiss 3f Velocity Spread
Without wad 1048 35 No hammer blow back
With Wad 973 60 significant" "

22 grains Goex 3f
Without Wad 849 74 No hammer blow back
With wad 801 74 " " "

22 gr/vol Pyrodex P
Without Wad 1015 44 No hammer blow back
With wad 1042 66 Significant " "

Also checked out bullets cast from one of the Dixie Iron Scizzor moulds. The bullet is advertised at 140 grains which would make it like the ones' used for the paper envelop cartridges. In fact, it is almost the same as the brass decorator mould bullets. Slightly lighter at 100 grains but more precise in measurements.
I noted that the pyrodex load was hitting near my sight setting and grouping fairly well one-handed at 30 yards. I laid in a 3" group from the bench at 25 yardsThe group might have been smaller with a more steady rest and better support.

22 Grains Goex 3f 100 grain bullet:
Velocity 831 Spread 36 fps

22/gr/vol Pyrodex P
Velocity 995 Spread 46 fps.

Still can't see much use for bullets but well formed traditional shaped .36 and .44 bullets have been grouping much better than generally acknowledged.

 

[Beartracker]

Mec, Great report but I'm not understanding why your getting hammer blow back with 25g of Swiss unless it's even more potent than I thought it would be when comparing it to Pyrodex P. Has your hammer spring been tapered or lightened?
The accuracy for my Navy Colt is great with 25g of Pyrodex P and good with 22g of the same powder.
The spread and velocity charges due to wad/no wad and different powders are strange enough that I would have to continue that to see what happens next time! Really excellent report and thanks, Mike

 

[mec]

Just one of the imponderables. actually this one has a fairly heavy hammer strike even after I padded the spring. It will even crack CCI caps. May remove the pad and try but I'm happy enough the the slightly ligher loads that dont blow back. The most accurate and on-to-the-sights load seems to be the un wadded 22 pyrodex P and maybe the Goex load. Another near identical gun might not blow back or might blow back with

What I don't understand is why i dont get hammer blow back/ back rotation with 22 grains of swiss and no wad but DO get it with the same charge with a wad even though the velocity is lower.

 

[georgeduz]

i have been shooting without the lube over the ball.and have had better groups,some of the balls are lightly coated with beeswax.i think that works better that the lube over the ball.i stopped using the wads,it didnt seem to make the difference.

 

[mec]

Interestingly enough with the black powder loads, the bore was getting plenty nasty either with lube or with the patch. With pyrodex. It was just a bit cleaner with the patch. I shot the 3" group with bare bullets- no lube, not patch / pyrodex- also no leading or fouling.

 

[Manyirons]

Mec! Aren't the revolvers interesting enough with intrinsic black powder variables without acting as if 'possessed'?

While wondering what wierd pressure fluctuation might be causing blow back WITH wads (I don't get this with either Navy and i hot rod mine in load experiments) what kind of tubes/nipples are ya using and what hole/orifice diameter in the nipple? (i.e. would smaller diameter nipple flash holes help?)

Interestingly, the local 'Smith with his Ammonium Nitrate/Potassium Nitrate mix 'power pills' breaks 1,300fps with great accuracy&load consistancy in his specially reworked Navies and yup, no problem with 'hammer blow back'.

 

[Beartracker]

What I don't understand is why i dont get hammer blow back/ back rotation with 22 grains of swiss and no wad but DO get it with the same charge with a wad even though the velocity is lower.

Mec, I'm gonna scratch my head on that one a while,Lol. I always thought that the wads would give a little more speed due to a better gas seal and I could see that causing your blow back but not if the same velocity is produced with or without. That in itself doesn't ad up to me, Mike

 

[mec]

In other revolvers Tresco Nipples have cured hammer blow back. It just hasn't been an issue with this particular one. This is the first time I've used either 25 grains of swiss or wonder wads with any load.

Another Uberti -a 51 Navy had blow-back and back rotation with lighter loads. Replacing the hammer spring-something that usually works, did noting but the tresco nipples did fix the problem.
Many Navy shooters talk about their " automatic revolvers" Some say the hammer blows back to full cock. The usual cause is shot out nipples with over-large vents.