.38 Colt detective special

[THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR]

I need some help Identifying my grandfathers colt; I can't tell whether it is from the 1st or 2nd issue. The serial # is 458119. I'm having trouble because the grip frame doen't match any of the pictures of 1st and 2nd issue colts, it looks more like the grip of a full size Police Positive. Unless I'm just not finding the right pictures online.

Any thoughts?

 

[XavierBreath]

First Series is 1927 through 1946.

Second Series is 1947 to 1972.

Locate your serial number in the data base at Proofhouse to determine your year of manufacture.

Your revolver is a 1938 gun. First Series. Congratulations!

 

[THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR]

Thank you very much! I was hoping for a first issue!

 

[flusher]

here's a 1971 DS

 

[Old Fuff]

The first Detective Specials were nothing but a regular Police Positive Special with a 2" barrel. Because they were built on the Police Positive Special frame they had square butts. They were introduced in 1927, and serial numbered within the Police Positive Special series, starting somewhere in the 331,000 range.

In 1933, somewhere within the 412,000 range the butt on the Detective Special was changed to the more familiar rounded shape, while Police Positive Special revolvers retained the original square butt.

So if you are lucky enough to find one of the early Detective Specials that has the square butt, and need replacement stocks, but sure to purchase the kind that fit The Police Positive Special and early, not the later style Detective Special.

But things get more confusing. After World War Two, Colt reintroduced the Police Positive Special with the square butt, but later changed it to the Detective Special rounded style. Therefore you will see some stocks advertised to fit both the Police Positive Special and Detective Special - which they do. But the question is, do they mean the Police Positive Special or Detective Special with the rounded or square butt? Obviously you need to proceed with caution.

 

[XavierBreath]

A first series Detective Special is on my short list of revolvers I'd like to find at an attainable price. The closest I have is this cut down Police Positive in .38S&W from 1923. I guess it's an almost Detective Special, made by someone who knew what he needed before it was available, or perhaps was unable to afford it when it was available.

 

[Cosmoline]

The closest I have is this cut down Police Positive in .38S&W from 1923.

You may have a real find there. Something is bouncing around in the back of my brainpan about a fellow who customized PPS's in just that manner in the early 20's. He's a famous gunsmith from the period. It was his modifications that led Colt to introduce the DS.

 

[1BLINDREF]

XavierBreath-



What a classic! Thats a great shot with the old keys and brass - very nice.

 

[WoodDog]

I bought a Colt Cobra just last week. Are they of any value instead of a DS? They look so much alike, but this definately says Cobra on the barrel. Thanks. WoodDog.

 

[Cosmoline]

I believe the Cobra is the alloy version of the DS. It was a pretty early alloy firearm and I've always heard to avoid +p in it. But that could be a myth.

 

[mnw42]

I have a 2nd (?) issue Cobra (1977, shrouded ejector rod). The major differance between the Cobra and the DS is is use of Al in the frame. In my area DSs seem to go for $250-400 and Cobras seem to run in the $400-600 range.

To make things more complicated, Colt also mage the Agent which is a Cobra with a shortened grip frame. The short grip frame was carried over to all of the D framed models in the 70s. Later agents had a parkerized finish.

I saw a really nice, early Agent for $450 last week, alas no money

 

[prism]

that is a good picture, XavierBreath.

 

[jtf650]

Colt issued a fourth generation of the Detective Special in the early/mid 90s. I know "they don't make 'em like they used to" and never have, but I was wondering how the 90s version was regarded by knowledgeable Colt fans, especially as compared to the earlier generations. Good, bad, indifferent? Thanks in advance.

 

[Cosmoline]

I've only owned first and second gen PPS/DS Colts, but the word I've heard is that third generation are very well made with updated "Mark III" internals. However, they also changed the style of the revolver with a full shroud which makes it look more like a Smith to my eye. The other thing I've heard is that the very final version tended to suffer from the same QC problems Colt had in their last days of mainline handgun production, but I don't know if that's just myth or not.

 

[Cosmoline]

Xavier, I found the blurb here:

The gun first became popular [in 1926] after J. H. FitzGerald, a Colt shooter, began to cut the Police Positive guns down to two inches for use as belly guns. In fact, FitzGerald went even further and bobbed the hammerspurs and cut out the front of the trigger guards in an attempt to make a real speed gun. They called them FitzGerald Specials, and many savvy gunmen preferred them for fighting guns.

- Jim Wilson, writing in the May, 2003, "Shooting Times:

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/detective_special.htm

According to this though he was best known for a design with the whole front of the triggerguard removed:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmoke/0605/

Anyway it's worth a look around to see if you can find any identifying marks on it.

 

[mnw42]

I think the 90s guns were SF-IVs/DS-IIs with coil springs and redsigned internals to require less hand fitting.

 

[jtf650]

I think I have an awful lot to learn. What are "SF-IVs/DS-IIs"?

 

[mnw42]

I was a little off, but here is an old thread that explanes it nicely...

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-118124.html

 

[jtf650]

Thanks- that thread does help! The fourth issue of the Detective Special (1993-95 per the Blue Book) preceded the ST-IV and DS-II which, as you suggest, apparently were a redesign of the Detective Special in an effort to reduce manufacturing costs. Other than the full shroud and the rubber grips, I'm not sure the fourth generation Detective Special is significantly different from the earlier versions, but I'd still like to know for sure. My education continues.

 

[cherryriver]

It's not a huge deal, but the SF (small frame) series used exactly the same flat mainspring as did the old D-frames like the Detective Specials.
The rest of the action is quite different. The trigger action is similar in character but not as smooth, at least, based on the two SF-framed guns I have.
The SF series included the SF-VI, the DS-II, and the Magnum Carry (in .357).
The Agent and Cobra were indeed both alloy-framed versions of the Detective Special. The D-frames (other than the Agent) went to the short butt in 1966, so that all subsequent Ds used the same grip frame shape.
It was the Mk III-Mk V series of medium-framed sixguns that had the coil mainspring. So, for that matter, did the large-frame Anaconda.
Bill

 

[mnw42]

Thanks for the clarification...

It might be prudent to have stickys at the top for Colt, S&W, and Ruger explaing the models. It probably isn't necessary for Ruger, but Colt has so many variations it might be a helpful referance.