.38 S&W Loads for Defense

[Blacksmoke]

Digging through my gun safe this morning I came across my Webley Mark IV .38-200 aka .38 S&W. Has anyone developed an improved self defense load for this cartridge? With its solid frame and 5 inch barrel it seems like a reasonable platform for launching an effective manstopping projectile. I am not a reloader but with proper use of the newer powders and expanding bullets this could be a more effective weapon than sixty odd years ago.

BTW, it is the only wheel gun I have seen with a "cross bolt" safety. I am not sure whey that is important but it is kind of cool. And a lanyard ring!!!

Any thoughts?

 

[Cosmoline]

Actually the .38-200 *IS* the improved load for that cartridge.

 

[calaverasslim]

The 38 S&W is way underpowered in factory loads because of so many tip-up guns still out there. If you can find a way to reload, the you'll find there are listings in the speer #14 with the 125gr JSP that is a pretty nice load for self defense. I have a Regulation Police in 38 S&W that I carry regularly with this load. You might consider this.

 

[Jim Watson]

The crossbolt safety was installed by importers to gain enough BATF points for sale in the USA after GCA '68 and before the C&R guidelines were firmed up. While Webley would provide safety catches on their revolvers upon request, they were levers on the left side of the frame, not crossbolts.

 

[rcmodel]

You need to use discretion when trying to hot-load a Webley with JHP bullets.

First, the guns are going to shake loose pretty fast with anything stronger then what they were designed for.

Second, most JHP bullets are designed to expand at .38 Spl.+P & .357 Mag velocity.

Third, .357 bullets are under-size for the .360 bore of the .38/200.
Also, your expanding die plug may be over-size for .357 bullets.

Speer has one Gold-Dot bullet designed for .38 Spl. short-barrel that "might" open up & expand properly.

Speer #4014 - 135 Grain, 38/357 Cal Gold Dot Short Barrel HP 38 Spl/357 Mag

rcmodel

 

[Blacksmoke]

Second, most JHP bullets are designed to expand at .38 Spl.+P & .357 Mag velocity.

-rcmodel

I am not disputing that but it is odd that so many cartridhge manufacturers place JHP bullets on .38 Special cases.

Third, .357 bullets are under-size for the .360 bore of the .38/200.
Also, your expanding die plug may be over-size for .357 bullets.

-rcmodel

That is something that never occured to me. I assumed the .38 S&W, .38-200 and the .38 S&W Special were all the same diameter.

Speer has one Gold-Dot bullet designed for .38 Spl. short-barrel that "might" open up & expand properly

Might be worth a try. Any thoughts on powder? I can refer to the Speer Reload Manual (I usually by Hornady's).

Thanks all. I was not planning on putting a lot of hot rounds through it; just a few for self defense as the gun is light and small despite the 5 inch barrel.

 

[Cosmoline]

IMHO you're headed the WRONG direction. Small and fast rounds for the .357 and .38 +p are not going to work well with your firearm. You need to go back to the load it was MADE FOR. The .38-200. A 200 gr lead slug is a lot of hurt even at moderate velocities.

The only place you can get these I know of is BEARTOOTH BULLETS. You can select to have any of their .38 cast bullets at .360" diameter. I'd advise the 200 if you want to get all you can out of the limited capacity of the .38-200. You don't need much velocity on that slug to make it penetrate, and the stopping power of the .38-200 is well documented. No need to hot rod it at all.

 

[calaverasslim]

After reading the various points of view on the 38S&W, even tho I suggested the 125gr JSP produced by Speer, which is designed for max expansion from a short barreled revolver and expands quite well with my loads for defense. I have to agree with Cosmoline.

If you can get some 200 gr lead slugs sized to 360 or 361 that is the way to go. I just don't have any idea what kind of load you would use.

 

[Cosmoline]

The info I can scrounge says the Ken Waters load recreating this classic is just TWO grains of Bullseye under the 200 grain slug. Speed is just 620 fps or so, but with that kind of a bullet any more speed is just going to overpenetrate anyway. Watch your OAL on the loads. Of course with such a tiny charge the round is almost all bullet ;-)

There's a whole thread on the round here with other loads:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=302837

Wow--it looks like they're commissioning Lee to make a new mold for a replica bullet! If you're into this round I'd jump on the bandwagon. Sounds like Lee has some extras so I'd call them direct if you want them.

 

[Moonclip]

I think Magsafe used to offer ammo in this caliber.

 

[wraco]

Back in the 70's my wife and I had a few acres out of town a ways in a sparsely populated area. A few miles south was a minium security prison and with me being away, at times, leaving my wife at home alone I fitted her up with a 38 SW revolver that I'd bought a few years before. It was a S&W Victory Model in excellent condition.

This gun was an easy shooter that fit her hand and she was comfortable with. I had a Model 19-3 with a 6" barrel and M 13-1 she would've been better off with but she couldn't shoot'em. Don't know if it was the noise, kick, the grips, I don't know; but she wasn't worth a hoot with them. The old Victory was a different story, she liked it and shot it well. So that's what I loaded up and put in the night stand for her. I figured with the 158 gr bullet that'd stop a "Crazy" at close range and not hurt her ears if she shot it inside the house. All she'd had to do, if push come to shove, was open the drawer, pull it out, point and pull.

We lived out there for few years and fortunately she never needed the 38 S&W, but it was there just the same. It did put down one big ol'badger and 3 or 4 porcupines. The skunk I never shot, just gave him all the space he needed for a retreat. But anyway, at close range and a 158 gr bullet, the 38 S&W crtg. didn't make all that bad a home defense round when I considered that her shooting accurate with a milder cartridge is superior to her missing with a more powerful one.

Regards:
Rod